Smoke & Haze- outdoors

[Pitts]

Hi all,

I seem to be getting a few enquiries for small outdoor displays.
I have sufficient laser power for small localised events.

The question is how to have sufficient smoke/ haze. The 1200 smoke machine and the MVS hazer whilst brilliant indoor won't hack it outside.

I have seen at some other shows a guy walking around the crowd edge with what looks like a small, modified, weed blower petrol driven, back pack, blowing smoke

Any ideas on this.. ??

With my Pitts Special aircraft I make smoke for aerobatic displays by injecting Diesel or Corvus oil directly into the exhaust system. This works very well makes heaps of smoke.

Does anyone know if its much the same process and what they use as the medium.
We can't have the crowd falling over and choking on diesel fumes (its bad enough in the cockpit I can tell you) [show comes with inbuilt laxative if you do this, probably OSH issues as well I would think]

Cheers

Ray

[dave]

Wind is your enemy ;-)

Your best bet I think would be a few big well positioned smoke machines, with maybe fans to get the smoke where you need it quickly.

[Mr.Coffee]

You can probably run fog juice through insect foggers, since they're basically the same thing, that is probably what the guy had on his back. you can also try incendiary smoke. Not sure what the laws are like down there, but if you call a fireworks company they can probably help. also, you'll get the best fog or smoke on humid days.

Other than that, big machines, and as many of them as you can get ahold of.

[buffo]

They tried to do an outdoor Laser show on the ILDA cruise back in 2008. They had a pair of these babies (Martin MagnumPro 2000's) set up on a gazebo of sorts on the lido deck (where the pool was), along with the DJ, the sound system, and a pair of RGB projectors. So basically they had an outside area that was sheltered on the sides by at least 1 deck, and by several decks fore and aft.

It didn't make any difference though. With a roughly 15 kt wind blowing, the fog disappeared as soon as it left the nozzle of the machine, despite the large foggers they had. They were using 3 watt Infinity RGB projectors from Medialas, but they really looked lame outside because there was no fog. It was a shame too, because these same projectors absolutely *ROCKED* when they were used inside for the lase-off. But inside they had a hazer running and no wind to contend with.

Bottom line - if you book an outdoor beam show and it's windy, you're screwed unless you've got 20+ watts of Argon or a whole fleet (figure 15 to 20) of fog machines.

Adam

[norty303]

I have seen this technique used to good effect.

Get a large diameter fan (or a few) and have it pointing vertically in front of the projector. Use a couple of foggers that will do constant fog (most half decent ones will fog continuously at 20-30% output, Antari, Jem, etc) and have them fire over the top of the fan.
This puts a fairly diffuse wide column of fog in the beam path, and because its forced at quite high speed it can withstand reasonable winds

[carlos3621]

what power (watts) , are you planning to use for outdoors??

i find it hard to do outdoor shows ,so i dont do them, and i have 3 watts green, i dont feel its enough to make a good light show outdoors.............

[mccarrot]

Wind is your friend, but you need to use it or control it.

You need massive smoke machines (1500W = small), but most important are big fans to control the smoke in the direction you want.

for the fans you need models of 1000W or bigger, a big fan you use in your house is useless outdoors.

A good tip is blowing the smoke into the audience at there feets with a big fan so the smoke will rise up from the audience.

At events like Dancevalley,Mysteryland etc. they use these kind of blowers: http://www.floor-machine.org/minutem...er-p-5057.html

1HP 4000CFM.

When I was controling the smoke at qlimax I had one of these fans in my hand an I could shoot the smoke almost half over the football field.

[mccarrot]

what power (watts) , are you planning to use for outdoors??

i find it hard to do outdoor shows ,so i dont do them, and i have 3 watts green, i dont feel its enough to make a good light show outdoors.............

Then you MUST be doing something wrong.

these are 5W lasers and the stage was a 20.000 people stage:



Remember if you do not have correct smoke you need a 40W pulsed yag to get nice visible beams.

[haymaker]

Fireworks do make very good smoke machines, but a bit too expensive.

[Francesco]

I've very good experience with the MDG MAX5000 APS for outdoor shows. Together with the fans mentioned above. Works perfect!
MDG makes very nice smoke machines!! Also for indoor shows they are great, but not @ full power
Datasheet of MDG machine: http://www.mdgfog.com/pdf/max-aps-series_e.pdf
More info on haze vs. smoke: http://www.laserfx.com/Backstage.Las.../Support1.html

[Insanity]

These look rather cool...

http://www.smokemachines.net/buy-ext...moke-gun.shtml

Mark

[Pitts]

Mark I saw those, wondered if anyone had any experience with them at all..?? look promising.

From what I saw here with the "mobile smoke" machines that is the answer. I am not sure that fixed electrically powered ones are going to cut it. At least within my budget range.

I am also intrigued that the 5 watt laser was not enough when you consider what the five watt can do in that movie clip ??

The units I saw were very much like leaf blowers, worn on the back with the little blower tube emitting smoke. I wonder if they are something someone made up as a special.
The advantage is the smoke guy was able to move to where the smoke had thinned and put in more. He was constantly mobile. This idea would also let you work with the wind and give the advantage of being able to quickly re position to take advantage of wind direction.

I see that there are also units that are powered that will run for 2 to 10 minutes on battery and residual heat for mobility but then need to "re charged" and re heated.... bit risky if you run out.

Cheers
Ray

[Insanity]

I think Paul (Lasermad) has used them in the past, I'm sure he'll chip in at some point...

Look Solutions had some portable fogger's, like you mentioned, on display at PLASA last year...

Mark

[Lasermad]

Ray

I have used those exact machines on hire** many times and personally i think they are outstanding , used them for weddings , smoke effects for film and small outdoor gigs .... depends of course on the wind ..if it aint gonna be your friend on the night mmmmmmm .... you also really do need a separate man on the night to walk around while your doing your stuff on livepro .... the video is very realistic at showing how effective it is and thats in a strong wind ... with a light wind/ no wind the smoke hangs around wonderfully.

Once downside is the SMOKE only lasts about 3 mins on full open ( Unit has adjustable valve ) but the consumables are cheap enough as long as your getting paid for the gig.

PAUL

** Starlogic on here has built one from scratch , from a blowtorch , the principle is simple enough .... you heat a tube with a blowtorch and blow the smoke fluid through it .... .......... VOILA ...lots of lovely smoke !


PAUL

[Pitts]

Many thanks Paul / Mark

I might have a go at making something up, its going to be a matter of getting the temperature right.
I understand that if it gets too hot you can "crack" the fluid and that may cause health concerns dependant on fluid chosen. (there are warnings about this on various suppliers sites)

My outside events are likley to be vey modest indeed (more like entry ways and alcoves not big open fields) I don't think Hugo will have much to break out into a sweat over.
I simply don't have the laser power to go "big" and the demand down here is pretty small for outside events.
I'll leave that market to another company down here that has some big 3 phase water cooled gas lasers.

If I get anywhere making one I'll post the outcome.

I just can't seem to find one of those backpack petrol engine driven jobs anywhere on the web.
Maybe the butane gas is the way to go and heat the tube as you said.

Once again many thanks for your input ( and you other guys too)

Cheers

Ray
NZ