Help creating opening fan frame

[norty303]

Hiya, I'm trying to create a fan (15 or so points) that opens from a single point.

Easy you might say.... but I want it to open from one end rather than the middle. This is so I can have it on 2 mirrored projectors that open up a fan from each side of the stage.

I'm using FB3 so have LivePro, LiveQuick and Quickshow at my disposal.

At the moment the best I've found is an X axis oscillator, but that only seems to work from the centre.

[-bart-]

In QS create a fan in the abstract gen size +100
then apply
key x position effect +100
osc x size effect (once?) 0 to 100
key x position effect -100

surely there is another way, but haven't found a simpler one yet.

[gottaluvlasers]

Im sure you have thought of this, but why not just make a beam sequence with multiple beam frames?

frame 1- beam on R
frame 2- 2nd beam on R
frame 3- 3rd beam on R
.
.
.
.
Frame 15- Final beam

So, a total of 15 frames.

Does that work for you?

-Marc

[norty303]

Not quite Marc because I want the fan to open from a single point of origin, rather than just step add new beams in succession.

So it will start with all 15 points at the point of origin, and then the gap between them will increase equally for all points until they are fanned out, but with point 1 remaining at the point of origin.

I think bart has nailed it with the 'key X position' actually, as I couldn't work out last night how to shift the origin point to one edge of the frame, but that looks like the trick.

I'll try it when i get home.

[gottaluvlasers]

Aaaah. ok. i gotcha. sorry, i misunderstood the effect you were looking for. seems like a cool one though. take some pics/video when you get it figured out. i would like to see it.

-Marc

[norty303]

Hopefully, here's a QS abstract file of what I was trying to achieve.

Now if only there was a way to get that into a format so I could use it in LivePro....

[soforene]

I had a play with Showtime and created a frame with a single dot then created several pan effects that moved the dot from its original position across to the right by 12 degrees at a time.
Do it 15 times and I think this is what you were trying to achieve.

[norty303]

Yep, thats the one!
It's interesting the number of different approaches to this. Rob Stanwax did one for me as well, but just use a rotation on the Y axis, with the 'hub' at one end.

[hobbybob]

Yup that's how Rob taught me once in Mamba.
Creating a line, with accents and then rotate in Z.
Placing the pivot point the left and then rotate the line in.
In my case i wanted it to start in the middle, so then you leave the pivot in the middle.

But interesting to see how it's done in QS, because i was looking for this particular effect also.
So tonight i will check it out. Funny to see the different approaches indeed.

[-bart-]

I purposely didn't go for the rotation-version. The size-version remains 'flat' in 3d.
When perspective is used for some reason, a flat animation remains unaffected.

[hobbybob]

Agreed, it was just to show there are more solutions, but you definately have a point there.
Didn't think about it that way. I am still learning everyday !

[hobbybob]

I had a play with Showtime and created a frame with a single dot then created several pan effects that moved the dot from its original position across to the right by 12 degrees at a time.
Do it 15 times and I think this is what you were trying to achieve.

hI Soforene,

I hope you can explain me how to do this coming Saturday ?

[soforene]

You can download this frame file and dissect it yourself (Check out the effects window).

Merely create one dot at the start position.
Run an effect to move that dot ending 12 degrees to the right.
On the second track display the original frame and run an effect to move that dot 24 degrees to the right (in the same time).
Repeat 16 times (Showtime Pro has up to 32 tracks) and when you run the show, all dots start at the same point but move out to create a fan, each point ending up at the finish point at the same time.
Voila! A sideways expanding fan.

[Insanity]

Looking at Dimitri's video, you can easily do this in LivePro with a Key Effect.

Create a fan of beams in LD2000, I usually use around 400 points in that frame.

Open that frame as a cue in LivePro and on that cue make a Window Key Effect. So right click the frame and select New>Key Effect. In the Key Effect editor, go to the actions menu and select Window X. You can now use the slider to create a 'write in' effect from the left, right, middle or anywhere you want, this creates a much smaller filesize than a string of frames in an animation...

Cheers
Mark

[soforene]

But wouldn't each "tine" of the fan just appear in position one by one?
What Norty was trying to achieve was a flowing fan that opened out (from the side) not have a fan appearing one line at a time.

[Insanity]

But wouldn't each "tine" of the fan just appear in position one by one?
What Norty was trying to achieve was a flowing fan that opened out (from the side) not have a fan appearing one line at a time.

Ah ok, so zooming up as it sweeps...

You could use two lines in a key effect. One for position and one for zoom. Start position at left and end in the middle, with size at zero at the beginning of the timeline and full at the end... Not tried that method, but I do something similar where fans sweep in and out at different positions to the beat...

Mark

[hobbybob]

Thanks guys, will try to dissect the files and take a look at it.For now i am a bit flustered by all the options the program has.

[White-Light]

You can download this frame file and dissect it yourself (Check out the effects window).

Merely create one dot at the start position.
Run an effect to move that dot ending 12 degrees to the right.
On the second track display the original frame and run an effect to move that dot 24 degrees to the right (in the same time).
Repeat 16 times (Showtime Pro has up to 32 tracks) and when you run the show, all dots start at the same point but move out to create a fan, each point ending up at the finish point at the same time.
Voila! A sideways expanding fan.

Know this is pretty obvious but as newbs sometimes read these boards just thought I'd add a quick warning note, and that is I'd be careful using anything propagating out from a single point where all points are visible at time 0 or near time 0 as potentially you have 16 points overlaid which makes for a very hot beam.

No problem overhead, but be wary of an audience scan with so many beams laid onto a single point.

One way around this (although getting the accuracy in QS might be difficult depending on how fast the fan propagates) might be to key visible points so that each point only becomes visible once its actually moved from its original start position. ie. at the start only 1 point is visible even though 16 exist. As the 2nd point moves off the start position a 2nd point is keyed visible, as the 3rd moves off the start co-ordinates a 3rd point is keyed visible. Thus at the start point only 1 point is ever visible but away from that co-ordinate the points are visible as they spread out. Doing this would also avoid the start point appearing "hot" and thus brighter than the other parts of the fan. However, whether or not there's the keying resolution to do this in QS I don't know as I've not tried it. If doing it as 16 separate tracks, there is greater scope for accurate alignment in keying the visible points as you can do it with two keys on each track. You could also try starting each track at the original co-ordinates + 1 so that as each track starts over time it starts off the original co-ordinate, in fact that might be simpler and easier than keying visible points.

I haven't looked at your file as I don't have time but another way (which might be what you've done) is using a start delay on each track in which case you'll probably only ever have 2 points overlaid anyway (as each point has moved away from the point of origin by the time the next part of the "cue" starts).

Another way to make it audience scanning safer if it was intended for in audience use would be to start with the points laid side by side to create a small 16 point wide fan. Not quite the single beam point of origin but it should be possible to get a fan no more than a couple of centimetres wide and this should avoid any single hot point.

However, as I haven't tried any of these methods they are just suggestions and I don't accept any liability for their use in an audience scanning situation. The responsibility to check safety lies with the operator making pre show checks with such means as are necessary.