Quickshow vs Livepro and a few other questions

[m0f]

Hey all,

First a bit of background. I've been a laser hobbyist off and on over the years. In the past I've been limited to three mirror motor spirographs and mirror / motor bouncing off a speaker, just playing around really. Bought a chinese laser a few years back and quickly grew tired of the choices of effects.

I'm at the point now I'm seriously considering an fb3 setup. Initially for a basement setup, but ultimately I'd like to get to the point where I can safely offer smaller public shows to help cover the costs of the hobby. I'm up in Canada, and requirements for public shows seem vague. Can anyone point me in the right direction in regard to researching that ?

And finally my main question, in light of quickshow being released, and it being seeming powerful software, what are the advantages of livepro ? I've read livepro can take an audio input to beat sync, quickshow brochure mentions beat syncing, but does not mention whether one needs to tap in the beat or if it will accept an audio input in a similar way to livepro.

Livepro mentions 1600 built in artwork, I can't seem to find a number in regard to quickshow.

I guess it all comes down to is it really worth the extra coin, or would it be better spent on a higher end set of scanners or more power ? Is it really that much more powerful than quickshow for a small venue for example no more than 500 people, with 2 or 3 projectors max ?

Also, I saw a for sale post (more than a month old now, but it didn't seem to be sold at the time). It's an fb3 w/ livepro, but the oem edition without a differential input driver board. The price seemed reasonable enough considering the inclusion of livepro. Any suggestions for me there ? Is there any significant different between the older oem modules and the newer (xe?) edition ?

Been lurking awhile, but am really getting the bug lately Thanks for any advice.

[andy_con]

livepro and quickshow are very different and aimed at different markets.

i believe quickshow is aimed at more hobby kinda of people and livepro is aimed at doing professional shows.

my personal view is although good, quickshow is no good for doing proper shows. livepro all the way.

[buffo]

If you ever plan on running multiple projectors live to a band or DJ, you want LivePro - period.

Quickshow is very nice, and while I haven't used for more than an hour or so myself, I can see where it would be great to have in your bag of tricks, but in no way would I ever substitute it for LivePro.

I think LivePro for the FB3 might be less expensive (compared to the QM-2000 version) if you buy it at the same time that you purchase your FB3 controller. Check with Pangolin on this to be sure though.

Adam

[norty303]

Yep, I can confirm that LivePro was cheaper than the QM version when I bought mine, and that was separately from the FB3 purchase.
I would agree with whats been said above, LivePro is certainly the way to go for live shows. I had already been using LivePro before QS came out and I was thinking that QS might have been a replacement for LivePro, but certainly in it's current release version, it's still reasonably early in it's development cycle.
I seem to recall Bill saying a new version was going to be on general release soon some time ago, but it looks as if it hasn't yet materialized. You can contact Bill for newer versions but now i'm of the mind to wait for proper releases.
I think the next proper releases will be a significant step for QS and lots of features will be properly usable making it a real option for some live playing.

[m0f]

Thanks for the advice. I've emailed Pangolin for some pricing info. TBH, 3 projectors is a bit of a pipe dream, I'll probably be restricted to one for a good while anyhow due to budget limitations. However I can see how the right control seems to be a necessity though it sounds tempting for my application at least to wait it out for a more functional quickshow. I'll probably never be in the business per se, mostly just hobby for me, and have some fun doing up shows for some friends. That being said, I love software with many options, It's a shame a demo isn't available as that would really help narrow it down for me.

Just waiting to hear back from Pangolin about a couple of things. One of the questions I had was regarding availability and cost of a differential board as an add-on to an SE.

Cheers,

Miles

[Stuka]

I don't know the current cost, but a differential board is available for the SE.
(I have one for mine)

This MIGHT be one of those rare weeks that Pangolin could be slow to respond, since the Pro Light & Sound convention is taking place in Germany, and they're attending.
Generally, however, as long as you use the "Contact...." form on their web site, they'll get back with you pretty quick!

[norty303]

It's a shame a demo isn't available as that would really help narrow it down for me

Bill has already said they don't do demo versions because they offer a full money back guarantee. If you don't like the product, they'll give you your money back.

Oh, and I thibnk if you say you want a diff board when you order the FB3, they'll prob throw one in for nothing.

[LEDpaint]

I have QS on the way, but I've been thinking of dumping it in favor of Live Pro. I plan on using my projector for live shows, so I'm curious what features LivePro has that QS does not. I can't find any feature comparisons on Pangolin's website.

Can anyone sum up what QS lacks besides the ability to run separate shows simultaneously? Is it compatible with the FB3? Will I really want to use an FB3 with Live Pro? Bear in mind, I will probably never use my laser software to trigger any effects other than the laser, nor do I really see myself using multiple projectors for a very, very long time.

[Doc]

QS and LivePro are worlds apart in terms of configuration options.

QuickShow is a Cessna - a great little plane that'll fly you to the next state, but if you want to go to the Moon you're going to need the shuttle.

[Speculative Lasers - Dan]

dont wanna slam quick show, its great , better than most. but yeah livepro is far superiour, iwouldnt consider a live show with qs, ( there are things that just arent 100% safe yet, but its not for me to rap on that)

livepro at least. there is no half way when dealing with lasers.

[norty303]

There's lots of similarities, and yet lots of differences.

Is it compatible with the FB3?

It is if you order LivePro USB which is the version specific for FB3

Will I really want to use an FB3 with Live Pro?

I can't answer for you, but it's what I'd rather use.

You mention running multiple shows with LivePro. It's not quite like that. Think of it more like a DJ console with 4 decks or 'tracks' which can all play different things. You can then play combinations of tracks as you desire.
So you might have flat scans and liquid sky stuff on one, tunnels and triangles on another, fast finger beams on another and mirror ball bounces and beam targets on the fourth. you can then switch tracks in and out as needed. You can then lay over colour effects or other effect types on each track. And thats just the simple part of it...

[LEDpaint]

Think of it more like a DJ console with 4 decks or 'tracks' which can all play different things. You can then play combinations of tracks as you desire.
So you might have flat scans and liquid sky stuff on one, tunnels and triangles on another, fast finger beams on another and mirror ball bounces and beam targets on the fourth. you can then switch tracks in and out as needed. You can then lay over colour effects or other effect types on each track. And thats just the simple part of it...

OK, that makes perfect sense to me! Now I get it! Thanks!

I should have clarified my question about using it with an FB3. What I meant to ask was whether the FB3 was a good match to LivePro, but based on your answer, it apparently is.

[norty303]

You can then map different cues to different projection zones as well, so if track 1 is currently playing animations it can be set up to show them on a scrim or screen whilst your beams on track 2 can be set up for the audience area and your static beams set for the restricted airspace a few feet over peoples heads... and again, mix and match as desired.

If you've seen a screenshot of LivePro then out of the box (with the Playtime workspace anyway) the cues are set up so the first row of cues are going to track 1. The second row are colour and FX cues for track 1.
Row 3 is cues for track 2, with row 4 the colour and FX cues for track track 2.

And so on for the remainder rows and tracks.

You can set the cues to cycle through automatically for each track with the beat of the music, so track 1 every 8 beats, track 2 every 16 beats, etc
Once you have the tracks changing like this how you want, a show can be put together 'real time' simply by enabling/disabling and pausing/unpausing tracks.
If you give some thought to your cue setup, you can always have a nice sweep or fan ready to drop with any breakdown in the music, likewise a fast strobe is only a button push away to go with that big drumroll....

[m0f]

I was wondering the same thing myself, thanks for the detailed explanation. I ended up buying used fb3 w/ livepro madgadget had up for sale here, I'm excited for it to arrive to start getting acquainted with the software. Was second guessing myself a bit whether I made the right decision with regard to the extra cost of livepro, but from the sounds of it is by far worth it.

Also bought set of dt40w's tuned to 30Kpps, which just arrived today. They're back in the box for now, but I must say I'm really impressed with the build quality. It's my first set of real scanners though, previous laser was a big dipper f-01 with stepper motors . I'm also surprised how small the mirrors are compared to the steppers, I'm guessing aligning the beam is going to be a challenge .

So much for the budget though, I can't afford any lasers now , but all in good time. I do have a few lower power modules laying around from various projects I can play around with in the mean time.

Cheers, and thanks for the help

Miles

[mccarrot]

Dont forget Livepro got a learning curve.

Like Hugo said, it got as many buttons as a spaceshuttle.

I think Insanity got a nice tutorial DVD to get you started.

But I think a Midi keyboard with some sliders or rotaries is needed to get the best out of livepro.

[LEDpaint]

how about this?

http://www.turntablelab.com/box-scor...138/82740.html

[mccarrot]

Too many buttons and too less sliders and pots.

For cue selection its better to use the mouse or a touchscreen.
You need allot of sliders and pots to contol all the effects, and some buttons to start, reset pauze a track.

[LEDpaint]

Have couple of suggestions for MIDI controllers? I have a simple one used for DJ'ing, but it's all pots and sliders. No buttons at all. Can't remember the model or manufacturer at the moment.

[buffo]

Several people (myself included) have had great success using the Novation Remote Zero midi controller with LivePro.

Adam

[m0f]

That's good to know. I've often considered a remote-sl keyboard for music production but could never justify it for just that as it's a pretty light hobby for me. But now I can justify it I assume the remote-sl keyboards would work just as well, minus a bit of portability ?

Btw, the fb3 arrived today. Powered up livepro and I can easily understand now how you say there is a learning curve Really looks like amazingly configurable software though, can't wait to get better acquainted with it.

[buffo]

Yeah, the SL keyboards will work just fine. In fact, you could map the piano keys to cues in the main window, and "play" on the keyboard to change cues, effects, etc. Or you could just leave them unassigned and just use the sliders and knobs up top.

Insanity produced a tutorial DVD that explains the many features in LivePro in considerable detail. After you've played around with the software for a while (and read through the help files), if you find that you're still lost, you may want to consider ordering a copy of the tutorial DVD.

Adam