Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: AR coated projector window question

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,147,489,459

    Smile

    The idea is that if the beam reflects off the aperture window back to the galvos, the red component of the beam could go all the way back up the chain into your red diode(s), causing instant diode failure due to back-reflection. (This assumes that a significant fraction of the beam power would be able to make it all the way back to the diode, and that the diode is already operating at close to it's maximum output.)

    In practice, this is exceedingly rare. For one, most diodes are not running right at their failure point. And second, the amount of reflected energy (even off non-A/R coated glass) is usually less than 10%. So it's not as big of a risk as you might initially assume.

    Also, tilting the glass forward at an angle like that shown above will only help you if you *never* scan below the horizontal. Otherwise, if you scan lower, eventually you'll hit the point where the beam angle (relative to the horizontal) is the same as the tilt angle of the glass (relative to the vertical), and you have the same back-reflection problem.

    In fairness, with a slightly tilted window, the point where the beam can be reflected directly back to the scanner mirrors will be below the horizontal, which means that even if you did scan below the horizontal, in theory you'd only ever hit that reflection "sweet spot" while scanning. But this doesn't offer you any real protection, since facet damage due to back-reflection will kill a diode in a manner of a few nano-seconds. So even if the beam is moving and you only hit the sweet spot for a brief moment, it doesn't really matter.

    On the other hand, with a window mounted straight up (vertical), it's possible that if your galvos were *perfectly* centered in their mounts, then the normal beam output position with the galvos at rest (no scanning) would be exactly at the back-reflection point, so if you were warming the lasers manually with no scanning going on, the chances of hitting that "sweet spot" for back-reflection with maximum laser power would be higher. But again, this is *very* rare...

    Personally, I mounted my A/R window flush against the aperture and never looked back. Also, my A/R window has *horrible* coatings. We're talking reflection rates of 6% to 9%! So I did have a fairly decent back-reflection risk in my projector. And even so, I never killed a diode. (My projector has a pair of the original Maxyz modules, which are most definitely running right at their output limit. Yet they're still kicking just as strong after over 3 years of service.)

    Recently I removed my aperture window because I was tired of losing so much power from the shitty window (which cost me $60 from OneStopLaserShop.com). Been thinking about trying some of the Edmund's A/R-coated class linked to above though...

    Adam

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SoCal / San Salvador / NY
    Posts
    4,018

    Default

    Hey Mike -

    Quote Originally Posted by blowfly View Post
    What's the reason for tilting the glass to prevent it from reflecting back in the galvos? Does this protect the equipment somehow or produce a better beam?
    Adam's 'long-form' answer has many good points, and certainly true - though I always did it more for the chance that, in the course of scanning, you'd get some 'retro' (rather than 'back') reflection off the glass, onto your Y galvo, and back out the window - also, *really* rare - but, if you do a lot of 'graphics' shows (which I / we do for Corp, gigs, etc) the last thing you want is *any* chance of 'ghosting' - the angle eliminates that possibility, since all of even the 1% reflected-back (in the case of 'CDAR' there, ~99% transmissive, or-better, wavelength-dependent....) would get dumped into the 'ceiling' of your projector...

    Also, for 'safety', in the case of really high-powered lasers, like 171s / KTPs, etc - though, sometimes, projectors using those systems, don't even have windows, but in all of the 'high-power' systems we've built (mostly, the 'KTP' systems) I've always done the window-tilt, cause even 1% of 30-40W, retro-reflecting off your galvos / mounts, etc gives some nasty ghosting...

    ..and the 'CDAR', there, is the only glass even useable, cause, as I had mentioned in the other post, 'typical' glass will reflect ~10%, and 10% of 30-40 Watts is a LOT to-be bouncing-around inside your box, even scanned... Even when you 'enclosed' the scan-head-section, in a 'scan-box', it is still good-practice to use the lowest %R glass available, for when you've got everything open, and servicing in high-power-mode, for example...

    Certainly not some 'industry-standard' or anything, just a crazy idea from a crazy laserist...

    Quote Originally Posted by blowfly View Post
    Also wondering, how do you guys typically mount the glass?
    I would create 'tapered side-fill slivers', to block the 'gap', and also, create the angle for the 'tilt', and use either black 'RTV' (available at most auto-parts stores / hobby-shops, if nowhere else...) or 'high-temp' epoxy... but the 'RTV' would probably work fine...

    BUT - just a 'tip' - leave the projector 'open' to room air while the RTV is 'curing' (like leave it open for ~ 24 hrs) even though it will be dry much sooner than that... silicone will 'outgas' and can leave a yucky-coating on optics, etc - once 'fully cured', though, it should be fine....

    Hope that helps... I'm sure others will have some good suggestions for you, too..
    peace..
    j

    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    Been thinking about trying some of the Edmund's A/R-coated class linked to above though...
    What size is your window opening, and what is your mailing address, again? PM-is cool...

    cya
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Seattle, Wa
    Posts
    413

    Default

    It makes sense that whatever material in the diode is being energized, it will have a maximum energy threshold before it overheats.

    I'll give tilting the window a shot. Seems like a fun challenge. Thanks for the tip on RVS. I haven't used that stuff before. This project is for learning and fun and I'm learning so much from you guys.

    PL, you're my hero!

    Mike

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    116

    Default

    if i need a BIG window for my beam table what should i go for?

    no diodes in sight

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SoCal / San Salvador / NY
    Posts
    4,018

    Lightbulb

    Hey Sir M -

    Quote Originally Posted by teknofon View Post
    if i need a BIG window for my beam table what should i go for?
    That 'CDAR' is available up-to 10" x 12", http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...w=21&PageNum=2 which can be easily cut into long horiz. 'panels' to make, say, a window for even a really-large beam-table projector, ie:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LS40.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	79.5 KB 
ID:	17484 (this one has three 5" x 12" panels, butted side-side in a frame.... 'seams' are really not an 'issue'...)

    ... take the glass to a professional 'framing shop' and ask them to cut it for you - they'll have the 'Pro' cutters to make a nice, clean cut, and it should not cost more than a few bux, if anything at all (buy something else from thier shop, and they'll probably cut it for free... -

    ...and 'frame shops' are usually more careful than a 'glass shop' - they're typically less concerned if they break a pane or two (but at $65., you are concerned! the 'framers' are usually artists or art-sensitive, so they'll handle with more care, in my experience... - just remove the blue coating ONLY in the area of the cut, (this way, the rest of the glass is protected from gooey fingerprints) and mark the glass with a 'sharpie' / indelible marker on your desired cut-line, and you'll be off...

    For fingerprints on 'CDAR', I have found the best cleaner to be a weak solution of mild 'dishsoap' and clean water, vs, say Acetone... acetone tends to leave 'streaks', etc - that is best used for like, cleaning off epoxy, et al...

    Hope this helps, and PS - should have your shipping quote by Monday (awaiting answer in email...

    cheers...
    J
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Utrecht The Netherlands
    Posts
    721

    Default

    shipping costs are the same as the price of the glass , someone in the Netherlands who can deliver a piece of at least 6cm x 6cm and how to frame it in the projector? glue it on the inside? then i need a piece of 7cm x 7cm or so.

    Michel

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,473

    Default

    Edmund optics has 3x3 inch, i used the same in my RGB, i liked it.
    McCarrot sells those in his shop. Maybe i'll hop in and we can split shipping (or pick it up when we go to him) ?

    gr
    dimitri
    I didn't fail !
    I just found out 10,000 ways that didn't work.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Seattle, Wa
    Posts
    413

    Default

    I followed Jon's advice yesterday and went to a frame shop to cut my AR glass. The guy did an awesome job and didn't even charge me! I bought him a latte instead.

    Mike

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SoCal / San Salvador / NY
    Posts
    4,018

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by blowfly View Post
    The guy did an awesome job and didn't even charge me! I bought him a latte instead.
    ...Don't ya just luv a happy-ending? (...soforene, you keep-quiet!
    cheers..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •