A plea for safety, pl edition.

[Laserman532]

But you got to admit...this would look spectacular attached to the shoulders of spastic dancers in a night club full of patrons on X. With proper amounts of glitter...totally safe

a lot of discussion about something that nothing can be done about. The projector is properly designed and interlocked as required to be entered into commerce.

The success or failure of the projector will come from the success or failure of the projector.

ILDA Control...dont make me laugh

Controls???- Controls are for those who want it for themselves...Technically...All 445 blue diode sales should go through me and only me

Just sit back, relax, and watch what innovative people will do with technology, and shake your head at the ignorance that others will do with the technology. We have both camps right here on this little forum.

[allthatwhichis]

Oh yeah, yep and yes to all questions.

I caution anyone going to try this. Pull out your goggles before you turn it on; I am very glad I did. That bitch it BRIGHT!!! Feels like it would cause a "sunburn" in minutes if not seconds. Much safer to sue the remote too...

@White-Light, I think most of the objections here on PL are of the "Having such easy access to such cheap, powerful, and easily accessable diodes could put the industry in danger if put in the hands of irresponsible people." It has nothing to do with profitability, most here don't build projectors professionally; or that some Allen will get a hold of a cheap projector and steal buisness as regulation should take care of that. It is about the industry being regulated to death after a possible accident with one of these $50, 1Watt visible diodes getting into the hands of someone who has no clue... at all. Kinda like myself with a 3mW 650nm keychain when I was 18 and on who knows what pointing it out of a car window at street signs in downtown Orlando... This possible accident is made all the more possible because these $50, 1Watt visible diodes are so easily attainable. I hear they almsot fall out of the projector.

My only suggestion is for those with a Casio projector, myself included, is to regulate who we sell diodes and modules to; that is about all we can be responsible for.

[dsli_jon]

...It is about the industry being regulated to death after a possible accident with one of these $50, 1Watt visible diodes getting into the hands of someone who has no clue... at all. ...This possible accident is made all the more possible because these $50, 1Watt visible diodes are so easily attainable. ...My only suggestion is for those with a Casio projector, myself included, is to regulate who we sell diodes and modules to; that is about all we can be responsible for.

...at least ONE guy understands my point...

@ W-L... yes, I have to spend some more time reading all those ILDA-docs / studies... thanks for the 'bump' on that.... ...we are working hard on getting 'real-world' Regs over-here, but again, all we need is for ONE nationally-televised 'blue-pointer' incident, and we're set-back X-years with making progress on getting the CDRH to take us seriously / looking-at 'relaxing' those antiquated parts of the Regs.... they 'lump' the deviants in-with the responsible - pointers / shows / demos - it's all 'entertainment' to them...

...Really, it's not-even so-much one single diode, that is such a concern to-me, with these puppies - what would it take for someone to get the 'bright idea' to do this:

(pic deleted by LSA)

... with a car-battery and an inverter - 24W into airspace!... Like Steve said at the outset, it's more-likely the FAA we'll have to worry about, than CDRH, if/when something happens...

to your comments, A.... my sentiments, exactly...
peace..
j

But you got to admit...this would look spectacular attached to the shoulders of spastic dancers in a night club full of patrons on X. With proper amounts of glitter...

Hahahahaha! Pat, I would never have pegged you as a 'glitter-man'... ...then-again, these are your Glam-Dogs, right?

Ellie_n_Dash_532.jpg

.... you got a 'variance' for those pups, mister?
j

[Diachi]

Just to add ... some people are getting over a watt out of their 12x BR diodes. Even the ones that aren't are getting a 600-700mW CW.

I agree though, these 445nm diodes can and will be dangerous in the wrong hands. All we can *really* do is restrict who can purchase said diodes *on PL*, and educate the people who may purchase them elsewhere.

[ElektroFreak]

...at least ONE guy understands my point...

Dude, everyone here understands and the vast majority of us agree with your point.. It's the methods of control that we're conflicted about. We're not all just a bunch of idiots you know. It's obvious that you consider yourself a foremost intellect, but for the love of god give someone else a little credit once in awhile.

And also, that looks like 24 watts into a tree.

[Speculative Lasers - Dan]

control information, control supply.... buy them all... and dont tell anyone...?

[norty303]

Its all completely futile (imho)
All the time the projectors are available, people will be in a position to purchase these however they want. Get 4 mates together, spend £200 each (less than I paid for any of my other lasers individually) and you have 6 diodes each.

These forums are not the be-all-and-end-all of the laser world, and you will never control what people do.

If people here stop selling to 'those unworthy' I'll just be out with my credit card and buying my own beamer if I need any more diodes.

Remember, even with the tightest controls in the world, someone 'will' mount one in apointer, which 'will' get shone at something/someone in an unappropriate manner.

PL and LPF are 'not' going to prevent that, so quit worrying about it.

If you really wanted to do something about it, remove all trace of talk about 445's (or even building lasers in general) from the internet, and you may slow it down somewhat.... is that going to happen? I doubt it.

[Eidetic]

Handheld lasers with outputs over 5mW are directed energy weapons, and really good for nothing else. So is a bench mounted laser with a handheld mirror in the hand of an idiot or criminal sitting at a window. But the drop in price of high powered lasers is putting them into the hands of more of both, and sooner or later their ownership will require a license.

What I don't understand is why the companies making products with these high powered blue lasers in them aren't required to render the lasers inoperable if they're ever removed from the product. The products aren't designed for the lasers to be harvested. I predict a lawsuit from a burned little girl's parents against Casio or some other deep pockets corporation, because some 17 year old with a Star Wars fantasy hits her in the back of the head with a 500mW blue laser pointer and she turns her head unexpectedly. Sold to him on Ebay (who don't sell guns). Encouraged to burn things by those at LPF. Built with plans provided here.

[mixedgas]

And just the scattered light from these is a severe hazard, let alone the direct beam. You do not get a second chance with this level of power.

This is a Rattlesnake that does permanent damage, moves 11.8 inches (30 cm) every billionth of a second, is totally unfeeling, and will blind you, burn you, and scar you.

Steve

[ElektroFreak]

I've been thinking about it, and I'm with Pat. Kick back, relax and enjoy your hobby/profession.

Dwelling on some possible worst case scenario all the time, and planning out how you're going to fix this "problem" (that hasn't yet become a problem) for the rest of the world will get your hair gray quick.. if it isn't already. What's done is done. All we can do is the best we can do. I stopped my group buys when I realized how powerful these are, and I don't know if I'll ever do more. People that are supplying diodes need to make a judgement for themselves how they handle the danger.


Class 4 laser pointers are nothing new, and almost every teenage kid on LPF that wanted to have one before this "445nm revolution" could and did get one. Nothing has really changed. Class 4 blu-ray diodes have been available for around $100 for awhile now, with 300mW being around the $50 price point, and they're available to anyone. Most of these kids seem to be able to find money for extremely high-powered portables as well.. While I most certainly recognize that these lasers are a risk, the truth is nearly ALL lasers are a risk. 405nm light is just as dangerous to the skin and eyes as 445nm light, if not slightly more so.. and like I just said, class 4 405nm pointers are in the hands of children right now. I just don't think that freaking out and claiming that we're all ruined is helping much. Call me crazy...

[Laserman532]

Handheld lasers with outputs over 5mW are directed energy weapons, and really good for nothing else. So is a bench mounted laser with a handheld mirror in the hand of an idiot or criminal sitting at a window. But the drop in price of high powered lasers is putting them into the hands of more of both, and sooner or later their ownership will require a license.

What I don't understand is why the companies making products with these high powered blue lasers in them aren't required to render the lasers inoperable if they're ever removed from the product. The products aren't designed for the lasers to be harvested. I predict a lawsuit from a burned little girl's parents against Casio or some other deep pockets corporation, because some 17 year old with a Star Wars fantasy hits her in the back of the head with a 500mW blue laser pointer and she turns her head unexpectedly. Sold to him on Ebay (who don't sell guns). Encouraged to burn things by those at LPF. Built with plans provided here.

same reason why vag burners dont stop working when in the hands of a yahoo DJ.

Same reason why a SP 168 dosnt stop working when removed from a cooper lasersonics medical product

same reason why a HGM5 dosnt stop working when removed from a hgm5

same reason a 16x diode dosnt stop working when removed from a dvd burner.

The product was designed to function as engineered, every circumstance can not be covered. same argument as...guns dont kill people, people kill people regulated bullets will only find their way into criminal hands.

Sit back, have a margarita...and watch the show, it wont be long until a mental midget on LPF trades in his pointer for a white cane...nothing will change SSDD.

[JohnYayas]

"Ralphie, you're going to shoot your eye out!"

christmas_story3_2.jpg

[Morgan]

same reason why vag burners dont stop working when in the hands of a yahoo DJ.

Same reason why a SP 168 dosnt stop working when removed from a cooper lasersonics medical product

same reason why a HGM5 dosnt stop working when removed from a hgm5

same reason a 16x diode dosnt stop working when removed from a dvd burner.

The product was designed to function as engineered, every circumstance can not be covered. same argument as...guns dont kill people, people kill people regulated bullets will only find their way into criminal hands.

Sit back, have a margarita...and watch the show, it wont be long until a mental midget on LPF trades in his pointer for a white cane...nothing will change SSDD.

I apologise for the sound of this post before I make it but it has to be said that I don't think I have ever seen a post on LPF describing a member damaging their sight through the use of lasers. Most people over there respect their chosen, potentially hazardous hobby and employ safety as a first precaution. There are the, "Allens", as they seem to be called on PL that come in from time to time and are swiftly outed and discouraged. Safety IS promoted heavily on LPF and although I respect this site too and many of the members I don't actually see any immediately obvious references to safety and the law on the front page of PL. (Please correct me if I'm wrong but I did look)

The welcome page says this," Welcome to the forums!

We believe in "self-moderation" here.

Keep things on topic and you won't force us use the clue-bat. "


Self moderation? Doesn't sound like that to me right now from some quarters.

I apologised at the start of this post for what I knew it would sound like, as I do not wish to alienate, but I am a responsible member of LPF and have learnt how to safely extract diodes, (using suitable ESD precautions), build a module, control my diodes output, and all whilst looking after mine and other's sight.

You may feel elitest at times and the work you do here is truly inspiring, (I know, I was at the Surfleet LEM), and at the moment I can only aspire to it but please give other users a break. I don't want to feel I have to prove anything to anyone every time I post here simply because I learnt from LPF. I learnt all the things I should have and now want to learn more and I am sure I am not the only one.

Good will to all, and all that.

M

[Laserman532]

I apologise for the sound of this post before I make it but it has to be said that I don't think I have ever seen a post on LPF describing a member damaging their sight through the use of lasers. Most people over there respect their chosen, potentially hazardous hobby and employ safety as a first precaution. There are the, "Allens", as they seem to be called on PL that come in from time to time and are swiftly outed and discouraged. Safety IS promoted heavily on LPF and although I respect this site too and many of the members I don't actually see any immediately obvious references to safety and the law on the front page of PL. (Please correct me if I'm wrong but I did look)

The welcome page says this," Welcome to the forums!

We believe in "self-moderation" here.

Keep things on topic and you won't force us use the clue-bat. "


Self moderation? Doesn't sound like that to me right now from some quarters.

I apologised at the start of this post for what I knew it would sound like, as I do not wish to alienate, but I am a responsible member of LPF and have learnt how to safely extract diodes, (using suitable ESD precautions), build a module, control my diodes output, and all whilst looking after mine and other's sight.

You may feel elitest at times and the work you do here is truly inspiring, (I know, I was at the Surfleet LEM), and at the moment I can only aspire to it but please give other users a break. I don't want to feel I have to prove anything to anyone every time I post here simply because I learnt from LPF. I learnt all the things I should have and now want to learn more and I am sure I am not the only one.

Good will to all, and all that.

M

more than ONE ten year professional has left LPF due to the lack of respect of knowledgeable, responsible professionals of the industry. I dont put myself at the top of that heap but i found it frustrating to try to educate some allens over there...and there were a lot of them. I lost my password about x months ago and havent been back to even lurk...dont miss it a bit.

[Eidetic]

I don't care one bit about the eyesight of those using laser pointers inappropriately. I just don't want to have to pay for a license to buy lasers to use for making or showing holograms. Handheld lasers over 5mW break every rule of laser safety I learned in school to become a laser technician, and practice every day.

We never heard about idiots tracking aircraft with laser beams until pointers got into the hands of the asses of the masses, represented by those over at the LPF. Front page admonitions against tracking aircraft aren't necessary here as they are there, as this forum is comprised of adults and professionals, not children and a clique of "veterans" defined by "me too" post count alone.

[Laserman532]

I don't care one bit about the eyesight of those using laser pointers inappropriately. I just don't want to have to pay for a license to buy lasers to use for making or showing holograms. Handheld lasers over 5mW break every rule of laser safety I learned in school to become a laser technician, and practice every day.

We never heard about idiots tracking aircraft with laser beams until pointers got into the hands of the asses of the masses, represented by those over at the LPF. Front page admonitions against tracking aircraft aren't necessary here as they are there, as this forum is comprised of adults and professionals, not children and a clique of "veterans" defined by "me too" post count alone.

HAHA...Got to give +1 REP Points for that one

I was wiring in a three phase panel while it was hot (had to, that is what happens sometimes) when right when I went to put the screwdriver in the slot, BAMMMMM a big red dot from a laser pointer lit up the inside of the box...I thought I had died.... Nope I was still around long enough to see PR (some of you know who he is) laughing and pointing at me from a distance...i think that was in 1983...never forgave that prick for doing that.

Not all pointer wielding folks are pricks, some of them are very good engineers, and not every veteran PL professionals and ILDA members in good standing are responsible and kind to their audience. Nothing has changed.

You applaud some...some you slap!

[Morgan]

Laserman532, I can appreciate you, and others, have outgrown LPF and that's truly okay with me, (FrothyChimp?). I am branching out myself but still feel a loyalty to those, 'good', people on LPF. I think it is an entry level forum with basically good principles and the resources for learning are there. They may have to be spoon fed at times, as appropriate, but they are there. I am happy to do this myself to pass on the importance of safety etc, when playing around with the dangers that are not so obvious to the casual interest but I am also happy to jump on any, "Allen", who clearly has no respect or desire to learn; just burn! I want to contribute but don't want to be tagged as irresponsible just because I had to start somewhere. I think we have no problem here and I can certainly learn from the likes of yourself. It's easy sometimes to bash the lesser skilled but it's also important to stand up for them because they are often PL's under graduates. I hope I come out of this with a Master's. That's my aim anyway.

I don't care one bit about the eyesight of those using laser pointers inappropriately. I just don't want to have to pay for a license to buy lasers to use for making or showing holograms. Handheld lasers over 5mW break every rule of laser safety I learned in school to become a laser technician, and practice every day.

We never heard about idiots tracking aircraft with laser beams until pointers got into the hands of the asses of the masses, represented by those over at the LPF. Front page admonitions against tracking aircraft aren't necessary here as they are there, as this forum is comprised of adults and professionals, not children and a clique of "veterans" defined by "me too" post count alone.

Look, I think this shows a great deal. You should care about the eyesight of others if you are a laser technician. I personally have no problem if I had to have a license. If I had to have a license it would set me clearly apart from those using pointers inappropriately and give me the wherewithall to question someone else's behaviour. Would I welcome the expense? No, of course not but it would be a small price to pay to know I was doing the right thing.

You seem to be saying that it is the fault of LPF that high powered laser pointers are available to the general public. This is not true. Laser pointers are available to the public from many, MANY, sources. LPF may give advice as to where to source quality but this is never going to stop availability. If the site were shut down tomorrow, this would not stop the tracking of aircraft. In fact, I would go as far as to say that those caught tracking aircraft have probably never heard of LPF, nor PL. Front page admonitions should be of concern because if you don't inform you are liable. Granted, most of the members here are already aware of some, if not all of the safety procedures but as a mere LPFer and new member, where do I go to source extra info?

I'm not after a fight. As I pointed out in my first post, I don't want to alienate but I do want a level playing field. After all, you have the knowledge and experience I am after. Maybe I have something you want but we'll have to find that out together. LPF is not responsible for all the laser related ills of the world and go a long way to limiting them. Please bear the good that they do in mind.

Thanks,

M

[Laserman532]

Outgrown LPF?? no more like circumcised myself ouch!!!

sorry i had to have a little belly laugh with that one

[Morgan]

Outgrown LPF?? no more like circumcised myself ouch!!!

sorry i had to have a little belly laugh with that one

Getting a 4skin stuck in the zip of life eh?! Painful to remove oneself sometimes! I'm glad you're healed now. Hehe...

M

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=Morgan;149044]I apologise for the sound of this post before I make it but it has to be said that I don't think I have ever seen a post on LPF describing a member damaging their sight through the use of lasers.

Your wrong, I can show you 5 posts in "health and safety" in the past two years asking for how to deal with retinal burns. All of them pointer related , and all of them obtained by doing things that are stupid. Some of them obtained with other people around.

If 5 LPF have them, then the sample of the general population that has them and that own high power pointer is higher.

Steve

[FML]

Maybe some of you scannerheads have forgotten the Russian laser incident. Enough LPF bashing, and stop crying already. Your complaining gives me cancer...
Just enjoy this new wonderful technology!

[mixedgas]

Maybe some of you scannerheads have forgotten the Russian laser incident. Enough LPF bashing, and stop crying already. Your complaining gives me cancer...
Just enjoy this new wonderful technology!

Can't do that, it has societal impacts beyond enjoying pointers.
And mentioning Aquamarine with disrespect like is bad form.
Aquamarine happened because of a lack of safety training.

Steve

[Morgan]

[QUOTE=mixedgas;149093]

I apologise for the sound of this post before I make it but it has to be said that I don't think I have ever seen a post on LPF describing a member damaging their sight through the use of lasers.

Your wrong, I can show you 5 posts in "health and safety" in the past two years asking for how to deal with retinal burns. All of them pointer related , and all of them obtained by doing things that are stupid. Some of them obtained with other people around.

If 5 LPF have them, then the sample of the general population that has them and that own high power pointer is higher.

Steve

From established members or simply first time posters who were worried enough to seek advice from a forum with the knowledge they needed? That is why I underlined the word member. At the time of damage they were not members of LPF.

Regardless, this is still not the fault of LPF.

M

[JohnYayas]

Remember, the BP oil thing started because people that thought they knew what they were doing really didn't. All of you on here who are claiming to know what you are doing with laser diodes and condemning those on LPF or elsewhere need to think long and hard about that. Some of you are just as likely to accidently blind yourself as someone else over there. The hypocracy runs deep here.

Let's talk about LEMs for a moment. Is there any careless and/or reckless behavior going on there? Is it even remotely possibly that bystander could be hit by a beam in the face? Remotely possible? More like probable. If a person isn't paying attention and wanders into the wrong area they are going to get zapped.

Think about where I am going with this. Then step down from the horse and start worrying about what you do and no what everyone else is doing.

[FML]

Hypocrite much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzFe32Omy44