A plea for safety, pl edition.

[LaNeK779]

and there is no practical use for them AS ANYTHING ELSE BUT A TOY!!!

i have to disagree (with a big dose of humour in it)
they can be used for star pointing (thus blinding aircraft, helicopters, UFOs etc)
star pointing.. who thought of that???

i.e. young couple on the beach, on a fragrant, romantic summer night

-"oh honey, andromeda looks really astonishing tonite"
-"where is it?"
-"just a sec, i'll show you with my super-duper star pointer"
-"oh... what a big pointer you have..."

[Stoney3K]

The thing that disturbs me the most is that alot of people consider laser pointers as a toy.
Just because you can play with something doesn't make it a toy.
For example: I can play around with a knife, but that doesn't make it a toy.

When accidents happen and it involves press or sueing then it should be made clear that this user did NOT follow the rules of safety.
It shouldn't be blamed on the laser.

Don't we have the same problem with a 1-ton murder weapon usually found in front of people's homes? Generally has 4 wheels and an engine.

If you want to drive a car, you will first need to prove that you're capable of handing it safely and responsibly. Otherwise you will, in most cases, not be able to purchase a car, let alone drive it home (legally). Wanna drive? Get a driver's license, it's not rocket science but you can at least be held accountable.

I'm still in favor of starting the same rules for lasers (and projectors). If you want to be able to do shows and handle lasers, you need to show to some regulatory body that you know what you're doing. Now I'm not really in favor of a variance system like there is in the USA, but right now, with lasers being sold on the internet, most of laserland is just a big free-for-all until something serious will happen.

[masterpj]

i have to disagree (with a big dose of humour in it)
they can be used for star pointing (thus blinding aircraft, helicopters, UFOs etc)
star pointing.. who thought of that???

i.e. young couple on the beach, on a fragrant, romantic summer night

-"oh honey, andromeda looks really astonishing tonite"
-"where is it?"
-"just a sec, i'll show you with my super-duper star pointer"
-"oh... what a big pointer you have..."

HAHAHAHA XD

well I think there are uses for general pointers themselve's but it's not much.
- Burning paper and stuff thats ok (well ok not toxic stuff or explosive)
- Star pointing (STARS not planes)
- making a compact laser projector out of it? (if you can add safety functions and a proper driver / cooling and ensure theres not much IR leaking LOL)
- move your hand around the room as an idiot and move that freaking dot

hmm and just like LaNeK779 said: You can show your big "pointer" to people....
OK that was horrible


*edit*
Oh god I'm already imagining this situation... a guy walks to a woman and says: "hey pssst, wanna see my big pointer?"
I think thats creepy.

[buffo]

Wanna drive? Get a driver's license, it's not rocket science but you can at least be held accountable.
I'm still in favor of starting the same rules for lasers (and projectors).

You can be held accountable for injuries you cause with a car. You can also be held accountable for injuries you cause with a laser. We don't need new laws to enforce accountability at all. There are plenty of laws on the books already that cover personal responsibility, regardless of whether the injury was caused by a car, a laser, or a baseball bat.

As for the rest of your analogy, let me remind you that there is a big difference between a car and a laser.

You can't run down to your local computer store, buy a DVD burner, rip it apart, and end up with a car, for example. But you *can* do that and end up with a laser diode that could cause permanent eye damage.

So it's very easy to control access to cars, and to require licenses before allowing people to drive a car. But the same can not be said for lasers.

How are you going to regulate all these lasers that are already in the marketplace? Even if you imposed a ban on all laser sales until a person could prove that they had a "laser license", it still wouldn't do any good, because there are countless sources of bare diodes to be had. (Surely you wouldn't require a license to own a DVD drive, would you?)

Then too, there are already millions of lasers in use around the country. What of them? Are you proposing a massive recall?

Laser licensing would be a legal quagmire, and it wouldn't solve the problem for decades, if ever, because there would necessarily be so many loopholes caused by products that incorporate lasers into them that could be harvested.

Bottom line: The genie is out of the bottle, and you'll never get him back in there. We're better off focusing on education at this point. You get more bang for your buck that way.

If you want to be able to do shows and handle lasers, you need to show to some regulatory body that you know what you're doing.

I agree with the first part of this. If you want to "do shows" (for the public), I think some form of registration and/or licensing is a good idea. And if you are caught doing shows without the proper certification, you should be fined. We have something like this here in the US, and while I think our system (the CDRH) is horribly broken at the moment, I have hopes that it will be improved in the future. But even so, it's better than nothing at all.

Now, requiring a license to merely "handle" a laser is foolish in my opinion. Hobbyists will handle whatever they want, and there's not much you (or the government) can ever do about it. And really, would you *WANT* the government looking over your shoulder with regard to all of your hobbies? I didn't think so...

most of laserland is just a big free-for-all until something serious will happen.

Yup. And that's where education comes in. Because if you try to ban the sale of lasers, people will find a way to get around it by purchasing devices that incorporate laser diodes in them and then harvesting those diodes. So all you end up doing is making it more difficult for the people who already know what they're doing to purchase lasers legally, while not really preventing high-powered lasers from falling into the hands of the inexperienced.

Adam

[masterpj]

As there are many different programs and they have varying GUI's and methods, a license is not going to be easy.

Use responsibility.
I think were fine the way it is now actually.
Every rule eventually has it's flaws or downsides.
Lets not make things harder for the people who do make proper use of their laser projectors.


*speculation*
The license will mostly affect the persons who do it properly anyway.
The ones that don't just find a way around it or just ignore it.
And if they find out then it's often too late.

[Stoney3K]

The license will mostly affect the persons who do it properly anyway.
The ones that don't just find a way around it or just ignore it.
And if they find out then it's often too late.

Well, the big problem is, you can easily regulate *purchase* of lasers, but it's a little harder to regulate *usage*. And the latter is what we want -- to make sure doofi with Wicked Spyder Arctics stay out of the club instead of zapping every mirrorball around. (If they want to be stupid and burn their hands, I don't care...)

I, for one, would not have any trouble with getting a permit (doing a simple course) and slapping a sticker on my projector after having it checked and certified. That way, I also get the assurance that everything is in order and there is a good chance that my shows will be safe (just as your car would pass an MOT check).

The issue is whether it'll stop my 14-year-old cousin from chasing the cat and shooting aircraft with his green pointer. I doubt there will be strip searches at the club entrances for 445nm diodes...

We have the same problem with lighting rigs, though. There are a lot of cowboys in the industry just bolting a piece of truss to every structural element in sight, and nobody will ever care unless a full rig comes crashing down and a dozen people die.

[DieBoard]

A friend of my went to China a few weeks ago. The year before he bought some laserpointers (400mA) and now some seller showed a laserpointer with a lock on it (guess allot more output then 400mA). He was so scared that he left them for what they are.

If some unknown tourist buy them for there little child theres gonna be a big problem on the streets.

[Laser Zone]

You can be held accountable for injuries you cause with a car. You can also be held accountable for injuries you cause with a laser. We don't need new laws to enforce accountability at all. There are plenty of laws on the books already that cover personal responsibility, regardless of whether the injury was caused by a car, a laser, or a baseball bat.

As for the rest of your analogy, let me remind you that there is a big difference between a car and a laser.

You can't run down to your local computer store, buy a DVD burner, rip it apart, and end up with a car, for example. But you *can* do that and end up with a laser diode that could cause permanent eye damage.

So it's very easy to control access to cars, and to require licenses before allowing people to drive a car. But the same can not be said for lasers.

How are you going to regulate all these lasers that are already in the marketplace? Even if you imposed a ban on all laser sales until a person could prove that they had a "laser license", it still wouldn't do any good, because there are countless sources of bare diodes to be had. (Surely you wouldn't require a license to own a DVD drive, would you?)

Then too, there are already millions of lasers in use around the country. What of them? Are you proposing a massive recall?

Laser licensing would be a legal quagmire, and it wouldn't solve the problem for decades, if ever, because there would necessarily be so many loopholes caused by products that incorporate lasers into them that could be harvested.

Bottom line: The genie is out of the bottle, and you'll never get him back in there. We're better off focusing on education at this point. You get more bang for your buck that way.
I agree with the first part of this. If you want to "do shows" (for the public), I think some form of registration and/or licensing is a good idea. And if you are caught doing shows without the proper certification, you should be fined. We have something like this here in the US, and while I think our system (the CDRH) is horribly broken at the moment, I have hopes that it will be improved in the future. But even so, it's better than nothing at all.

Now, requiring a license to merely "handle" a laser is foolish in my opinion. Hobbyists will handle whatever they want, and there's not much you (or the government) can ever do about it. And really, would you *WANT* the government looking over your shoulder with regard to all of your hobbies? I didn't think so...
Yup. And that's where education comes in. Because if you try to ban the sale of lasers, people will find a way to get around it by purchasing devices that incorporate laser diodes in them and then harvesting those diodes. So all you end up doing is making it more difficult for the people who already know what they're doing to purchase lasers legally, while not really preventing high-powered lasers from falling into the hands of the inexperienced.

Adam

Well said Adam !! Education is the best way , I for one was educated at the speed of light when I was sixteen. I was wacked in the eye with 7 mw's of 632 and it was so dam painfull. Thank god I can still see, but for these kids,, 1+ watts wont be forgiving !!!

[tsteele93]

LOL, I see this got stickied here too. Fearmongering is always the best way to fire people up! And yet how long has it been now? I just haven't seen the injuries pile up... Maybe it was the warning messages on all the forums!

[-bart-]

I just haven't seen the injuries pile up.

Yeah, let's increase the power of our lasers until they do pile up!
Then dial back 10%, that should be the sweet-spot.