Classic Medical Laser Scam Device?

[Eidetic]

Get a load of this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-1986-DYNATR...c#ht_500wt_948

Look at all those knobs and buttons for a 1mW He-Ne! Classy lookin' housings though.


P.S. Name changed to protect the innocent.

[mixedgas]

That one IS FDA and UL approved, actually a nice device. 1mW of 633 for 20 minutes a day will accelerate the healing of a small sore, but a question arises. How much of that is psychological or perhaps God? Ie your paying attention to something that increases your lifetime, and it heals faster.

NASA studies with large amounts of two wavelengths of IR and one deep red at the same time have shown greatly increased healing rates in the skin and in deep tissue such as tendons and muscles.

Approved LED panels have been sold for this, and thus you see the cheap led deep healing clones on TV, the TV ones have the wrong wavelengths, because the LEDs are cheaper... Go figure.


Steve

[Eidetic]

I understand the non-thermal healing effects of low powered laser light, but this device is still a scam. those effects are available with any laser "pointer". This is a placebo machine.

[shrad]

Since this healing process occurs by optical stimulation of the healing process, would it be possible that individual absorption wavelength is varying?

[mixedgas]

I understand the non-thermal healing effects of low powered laser light, but this device is still a scam. those effects are available with any laser "pointer". This is a placebo machine.

I'm not saying it works, I'm just saying its type approved. I've seen them in used medical gear auctions, owned by doctors or hospitals who knew better. 1980s or so design. I scrapped one about 10 years ago from a medical auction. It is a approved device, and well built.

Please remember, once upon a time a new 2 mW hene was 600-1200$. I was young then. Diodes were IR pulsed gallium arsenide at the time , just becoming CW, and CW diodes cost more then the HENE tube.

For a small amount of patients, ie ones with anxiety or phobia, a placebo is fine.

Steve

[Eidetic]

Oh I think the laser works, but the device itself is a good example of why our health care system is so screwed up. I'd add it to my collection to represent medical laser quackery but it would just piss me off whenever I saw it.

[mixedgas]

Since this healing process occurs by optical stimulation of the healing process, would it be possible that individual absorption wavelength is varying?

You'll need to find the University of Wisconsin study done for NASA.

The current NASA web site is lame:

http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/8-035text.html

Its is more about celebrating the licensing of the technology then the science.

Steve

[beamann]

What did NASA say about the MAGNETIC WRIST BANDS and SNAKE OILS?

[catalanjo]

Since this healing process occurs by optical stimulation of the healing process, would it be possible that individual absorption wavelength is varying?

Any intense POLARIZED light has a remarkable effect on a healing process.

First discovered by biologist (Hungarian I think) researching the effect on onion skin half a century ago in which case the psychosomatic effects on the onion probably weren't very important.

I suppose that's where Hobbybob's wallet came from!

Results from burn treatment centers worldwide are quite convincing.

It is even used on race horses

It does appear to be both wavelength dependent and intensity/dosage dependent for optimum results AND for once more power does NOT mean better results.

Laugh all you like, but if you ever get multiple burns, have a closer look at the whole issue!

Cheers

[catalanjo]

I understand the non-thermal healing effects of low powered laser light, but this device is still a scam. those effects are available with any laser "pointer". This is a placebo machine.

You say you "understand" these effects, I don't suppose you would care to elaborate, for the more mentally challenged among us !

I was once asked for advice on HOW to build a non laser placebo machine for double blind studies investigating these effects, to be conducted by a European university.

It ain't so easy, cos you have to be VERY sure, that your placebo does NOT produce similar effects.

Cheers

[Stoney3K]

Any intense POLARIZED light has a remarkable effect on a healing process.

Does that mean we need to start watching more 3D movies?

[mixedgas]

Does that mean we need to start watching more 3D movies?

Oh, great, get a 3rd degree burn, then become a militant, pot smoking, hippie after watching Avatar 32,768 times.

Steve

[catalanjo]

Does that mean we need to start watching more 3D movies?

Only if you "accidentally" burned your retina whilst mucking about with high power laser pointers !

Cheers

[Eidetic]

OK, thanks to Mixedgas and Catalanjo I've reconsidered my harsh (at the least) and unfair (at the most) comments above and now want to look closer into all the early devices for medical applications. The wood sides and complexity of the control panel also drew me in, so I added the Dynatron to my collection (#70).

Steel might be real, but wood is good.

[Eidetic]

Well I received the Dynatron yesterday and found the corner took a good bashing in shipment. It was wrapped well but put into an oversized box with too few random sized pieces of styrofoam which allowed it to go crooked and hit on the bottom corner. Incompetent packing is the biggest risk with old lasers when bought off ebay (and sometimes from those who you'd think would know better!).
Dynatron Corner.jpg

Anyway, I glued the corner back together and just finished cleaning it up. Dynatronics is a big company today selling all kinds of devices and equipment for physical therapists. This device was a very early one for Low Level Laser Therapy, that was never approved by the FDA. Just not enough power at the tip.
Dynatron.jpg

Here's a pic showing it working. I love the LED backlighting of the laser splat logo! The LED is a good distance behind the front panel so there's a parallax effect with it. Same to a smaller degree with the other LEDs. Very '80s! There's a Melles Griot he-ne inside the case, and the optical fiber that takes the light to the handpiece is inside a 4" long metal tube that goes into the socket on the side.
Dynatron Working.jpg