Case #4

[polishedball]

So what software is being discussed in case #4 on the ilda page?

http://www.laserist.org/intellectual...tealingartwork

[flecom]

thats pretty clever, but you could always play back a show into an ADAT machine and then re-capture it and convert it using LC-ADAT... not as elegant but it works...

copy protection of any digital information is doomed... look how much money the RIAA/MPAA has put into it and they still cant do it... the RIAA is really screwed because no matter how much copy protection you have a 1/8" to 1/8" cable is all it takes to connect the line-out on my pc to the line-in and record away

[polishedball]

thats pretty clever, but you could always play back a show into an ADAT machine and then re-capture it and convert it using LC-ADAT... not as elegant but it works...

But this method would eliminate having to buy the original playback hardware (?)

[flecom]

But this method would eliminate having to buy the original playback hardware (?)

well ya pretty much, once its output from the original hardware its just analog signals, if you can capture them you can do whatever you want from there...

for example most of my pangolin shows I output to ADAT and then recapture because they are hour long shows and sometimes cant be a single showtime show (due to my QM only having 256mb of ram) and to avoid annoyingly long "loading frame" time between shows we play them back from ADAT (on an HD24) or I capture them as WAV files and then play them back via a sound-card dac...

and since they are my own shows its technically ok

[polishedball]

well ya pretty much, once its output from the original hardware its just analog signals, if you can capture them you can do whatever you want from there...

for example most of my pangolin shows I output to ADAT and then recapture because they are hour long shows and sometimes cant be a single showtime show (due to my QM only having 256mb of ram) and to avoid annoyingly long "loading frame" time between shows we play them back from ADAT (on an HD24) or I capture them as WAV files and then play them back via a sound-card dac...

and since they are my own shows its technically ok

Yeah I get that part, was trying to say it seems this mystery software referred to would allow you to play back shows with never buying the original hardware or software. That it stand alone would play and decode shows if you had there previews.

[flecom]

Yeah I get that part, was trying to say it seems this mystery software referred to would allow you to play back shows with never buying the original hardware or software. That it stand alone would play and decode shows if you had there previews.

well, how determined are you?

you could theoretically take a video, separate it out into individual frames, then run it though something like TraceIT and turn them into individual ILDA files and there you go

or actually doesn't pangolin already have a video>laser application?

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=flecom;162090]well, how determined are you?

you could theoretically take a video, separate it out into individual frames, then run it though something like TraceIT and turn them into individual ILDA files and there you go

{qoute}
Try it some time, most cameras/vcrs/dvds break the laser image across frames and fields.

Steve

[polishedball]

{qoute}
Try it some time, most cameras/vcrs/dvds break the laser image across frames and fields.

Steve

You use a screen capture program that can do it at 15 ~ 30 FPS without breakup, if preview playback is on a PC.

[flecom]

[QUOTE=mixedgas;162096]

well, how determined are you?

you could theoretically take a video, separate it out into individual frames, then run it though something like TraceIT and turn them into individual ILDA files and there you go

{qoute}
Try it some time, most cameras/vcrs/dvds break the laser image across frames and fields.

Steve

how do you think LC-ADAT works?

hint: exactly the same

even if the "image" is broken up across "frames" just like the video looks normal so will the projected laser frames... you cant really tell where a frame starts/ends anyway if they are animated properly

[JohnYayas]

The problem with capturing with a camera and then tracing is that if the capture framerate is too high you end up with split frames or maybe even parts of the same frame captured more than once. If the capture rate is too slow you might capture more than one frame at once. Consider what happens when two frames are captured during a single exposure. There is a definite order to the frames but the trace software won't know that. It may end up creating an ILDA file that draws the beginning of Frame 2 before the end of Frame 1. Or may it interlace portions of each. Although you would still perceive some sense of animation when playing it back through a laser projector, it would not be as fluid if captured correctly.

I don't know anything about the software mentioned in #4 to even guess how it was done but I do know that a programmer has a lot of tools at their disposal to steal the frames long before they are displayed on the screen or on a wall. My bet would be that they were stolen through some software hack that let them grab the ILDA stream.

[flecom]

The problem with capturing with a camera and then tracing is that if the capture framerate is too high you end up with split frames or maybe even parts of the same frame captured more than once. If the capture rate is too slow you might capture more than one frame at once. Consider what happens when two frames are captured during a single exposure. There is a definite order to the frames but the trace software won't know that. It may end up creating an ILDA file that draws the beginning of Frame 2 before the end of Frame 1. Or may it interlace portions of each. Although you would still perceive some sense of animation when playing it back through a laser projector, it would not be as fluid if captured correctly.

I don't know anything about the software mentioned in #4 to even guess how it was done but I do know that a programmer has a lot of tools at their disposal to steal the frames long before they are displayed on the screen or on a wall. My bet would be that they were stolen through some software hack that let them grab the ILDA stream.

again LC-ADAT works exactly what you are describing wont work... its a series of broken looking ILDA frames that turn into an animation that looks like the original captured ADAT "audio"

[JohnYayas]

How does it solve the problem of not drawing frame #2 before frame #1?

[JohnYayas]

After a quick Google I found out it doesn't because it doesn't have to. When capturing from ADAT, the data stream is already ordered. It doesn't matter when the start or end of a frame is. The video problem I present is a significantly different problem. Draw a picture on a piece of paper. Then draw another picture on top of it. Then give it to someone and have them tell you which picture should be drawn first. It would be impossible to tell.

The LC-DAT scenario is more like two pictures drawn ontop of each other but in connect the dot fashion and the numbers are still printed on the picture. Putting the image back in the correct order is a no brainer.

[polishedball]

So does anyone know the mystery software of case #4, or is it taboo to talk of it?

[flecom]

After a quick Google I found out it doesn't because it doesn't have to. When capturing from ADAT, the data stream is already ordered. It doesn't matter when the start or end of a frame is. The video problem I present is a significantly different problem. Draw a picture on a piece of paper. Then draw another picture on top of it. Then give it to someone and have them tell you which picture should be drawn first. It would be impossible to tell.

The LC-DAT scenario is more like two pictures drawn ontop of each other but in connect the dot fashion and the numbers are still printed on the picture. Putting the image back in the correct order is a no brainer.

ah I see what you are saying now... still, you could compare the previous and next frames and extrapolate where the line should start/end by figuring what you had in the middle and where it started from and will be going