Laserworld CL-RGB 2000

[SideFX]

Hi All!

I've been away from this forum for some time now, mainly due to lack of time... But this i thought was worth sharing on PL

The last year I've done a bunch of indoor shows in local venues with my hand built projectors (2x 600mW RGY's, and 1x1.5W RGB) with 3x FB3 and Livepro, and also done some outdoor shows as a freelancer with LBF (http://laserbeamfactory.com/) in Holland and Germany, but also Brasil once

I wanted a second RGB projector in my rig.. but I didn't want the hassle of completely building one from scratch again. I had my share of fun building and extending a couple of projectors. For me the challenge now is doing a good live show which complements the music being played.

I started looking around and got attracted by a projector from Laserworld, the CL-RGB2000.

Specifications according to the seller:
- 2000mW RGB
- minimal 150mW 532nm, 500mW 655nm, 450mW 445nm
- minimal total power: 1100mW
- scanrate max 30kpps (no angle given)
- no modulation type (TTL/analog) mentioned

Now of course we all know how to interpret these Laserworld specs. Laserworld calls it a '2000mW RGB laser', but it guarantees no more than 1100mW.. probably due to legal issues So I was not expecting to receive more then this 1100mW
A colleague here in Holland had done measurements on a CS-RGB1500 (which has identical 'guaranteed' specs as the CL-RGB2000), and it was indeed 1100mW. No more.. but no less either.

It was especially the housing of the CL-RGB which caught my interest.. nice and small but solid.. capable of housing 3 colors, a nice mounting brace, and no big 'Laserworld' logo on the front
What if I could take just this case and built my own components into it. Ofcourse Laserworld would never sell just the case..
The CS-RGB1500 has a buy-now price of $2,552.49 (EUR1,714.00). After clicking around on the sellers page (http://myworld.ebay.com/lep-laser_de, probably just another ebay alias for laserworld) I noticed the CL-RGB2000's were being offered for bidding from EUR 1,-.

So I decided to take a shot.. thought of a max to bid.. and before I knew it I was a winner for only $970,- (EUR 650,-)

Of course it could be a total disappointment.. but it had the same 'guaranteed' specs as the CS-RGB1500, which I've seen being measured.
So for EUR 650,- I would at least receive:
- a nice case
- a blue casio diode with driver,
- (presumably) 30k scanners
- some optics, PSU, and 2 small lasers red and green lasers I could probably sell off again if it was crap.
- the ability to review a Laserworld projector on PL
So no big loss here.

A week later a box arrived and out came a nice black projector!
IMAG0102.jpgIMAG0104.jpg

First thing I did was hook it up an FB3 with LivePro, and do some patterns.
IMAG0105.jpg
I tried the standard test pattern.. and the projector made rubbish of it :s no picture yet as my phone wasn't able to capture it correctly. But it looked like these were just a set of 12k scanners.. and the modulation seemed way off.. Now i noticed the mirrors were rather big.. more power (or.. less loss from big red) seems more important than higher scanrate..

Apart from this the colors were ok, perfectly lined up! The red is ofcourse gigantic, especially with the bigger mirrors. After the green warmed up white seemed pretty well balanced.
I checked the seperate colors.. blue and red.. nice analogue modulated.
Then green.. and.. wtf..? TTL modulation? It just went on and off. Why not all TTL or all analogue? Well later we'll take a look inside so who knows..

Next thing I did was measuring the powers with my trusty scientech 362

IMAG0117.jpg
The green did 130mW (.3W scale)

IMAG0118.jpg
Red did around 400mW (1W scale)

IMAG0121.jpg
..and blue was doing 450mW (1W scale).
So blue seems to be the only color which is as specced No suprise ofcourse.. as the diode can produce up to 1.5W..
The total power produced is 980mW..

Next step: take it apart!

IMAG0128.jpg
Here you see the basic layout. The modules are all mounted on a thick alu plate.
The optic mounts seem more rugged then what laserworld used in the past..

IMAG0138.jpg

Check the big mirrors on the scanner!
IMAG0141.jpg
This sure as hell brings down the max pps..


Here a closeup of the scanner driver. never seen it before..
IMAG0132.jpg

Same goes for the 3 lasermodule drivers, which seem identical:
IMAG0136.jpg
This is the green driver, with a green led The blue and red drivers have equivalent blue and red led.. nice touch Only one pot on all three of them.. guess the green doesn't have TEC cooling (as well as the red and blue), which I've seen more often with laserworld modules smaller than 150mW.
Anyone recognizes these drivers?

Hey but wait a minute..
I see 2 2-pin headers on the drivers. On the green driver the top header has a wire connected, must presumably the modulation input.. But the red one has the lower header connected, and a jumper on the top one. Same goes for the blue.

IMAG0145.jpg

Didn't I just found out that the green has TTL modulation, and the blue/red analog?
Was it going to be this easy? Top header TTL modulation, bottom header analog modulation..?
I tested with the blue module first (cheapest diode ), to see if I could switch modulation type this way. I removed the jumper and switched the wire to the top header, just as with the green driver.
we got TTL! So top header is indeed TTL, bottom analog
Now for the big prize.. on the green driver I switched the wire to the lower header, put a jumper on the top header.. and.. crap.. still TTL.

The ilda breakout board has some logic circuits on it.. could it be the signal was made TTL from there..? would they actually go through this trouble? Let's find out. I connected the blue modulation signal (which did analog) to the green driver, set up a blue pattern.. and.. ANALOG!
in godsname why :s just to tease us laserfreaks?

So we have to get this breakout board out of the way, which is making my green mod signal ttl. Maybe there is a simple alteration I can make to it to make it analog.. something for part 2 I guess

Improvements for the CL-RGB I have in mind:
- alter or replace the ilda breakout board so the green gets analog mod
As the projector should match up with my current 1.5W RGB(635,532,445)
- beef up red diode to at least 600mW 655nm, or replace it for a 635/640nm
- beef up or replace green with a miniature laserwave to 200mW-300mW
- do some scannerdriver tuning.. or replace with decent 30k?

More to come!

[allthatwhichis]

Nice review, although it still shows Laserworld in a poor light, even if it was an "ok" eBay score for the price.

The projector power "listed" and the laser powers are not in line; to me it should be producing at least 2 watts. I say they should be selling that projector as a 1W, not a 2W.

The scanners sound like they are crap and even a 1W projector should have decent enough scanners to do the ILDA test pattern correctly.

Those got to be the strangest dichro mounts I have seen... Not bad, just odd.

Again, nice review but dammit Laserworld, y'all still ain't getting it right.

[SideFX]

Again, nice review but dammit Laserworld, y'all still ain't getting it right.

Thanks.. and indeed.. For the money I paid it is a ok product.. but still they are dishonest towards their clients with their specifications. I send an email with a couple of questions.. no answer ofcourse.

[SideFX]

I made some more pictures. Sorry for the crappy testpatterns! My wall aint big enough..


IMAG0150.jpg
Close up of the signal demolishing ilda-breakout board

IMAG0152.jpg
Close up of a lasermodule driver

IMAG0156.jpg
Ilda testpattern @10k

IMAG0157.jpg
Testpattern @15k

IMAG0158.jpg
Testpattern @20k

IMAG0159.jpg
Testpattern @30k

IMAG0160.jpg
random square pattern.. should be square, but has some artifacts. I believe there are some modulation issues, maybe induced by the crappy ilda breakout board. I will test tonight with the breakout board removed and the modulation lines attached directly to the db25 pins.

[soforene]

That 30k pattern made me lolz.

Attachment 24886

[White-Light]

Only the 10K looks right to me (albeit in need of tuning).

15k breaks up the vertical lines down the right hand side (unless of course the cameras just picking up the end / start of the scan)

[teknofon]

found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
looks like the same 445
is it any good?

[allthatwhichis]

found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
looks like the same 445
is it any good?

No, I am sure you can get one built from one of us on the forum for that price.

[SideFX]

found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
looks like the same 445
is it any good?

Yeah thats definately the one.. first time I see these modules sold seperately
I've bought some stuff from Snoctony in the past.. nothing to complain about, he even replaced a 635nm module which was putting out less power then specced.

He also has another 445nm module with the same specs, but with a bigger head and different PSU which is cheaper:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1W-445nm-laser-m...-/120711310127

No, I am sure you can get one built from one of us on the forum for that price.

that's true.. these modules from snoctony are nice.. but still they are cheap builds.. someone on this forum will be able to sell you better quality for the same price.

[teknofon]

that would have been great
to bad, i'm in a little bit of hurry
i've bought the other you mentioned
it seems like the one i've bought has a tighter beam
now i just have to wait and see if it's the right choice

[dilbert]

Hi I've been looking at a pair of these for satellites & will be watching the results you get as I asked a question and wasn't sure about the response:

Item: http://cgi.ebay.com/1W-445nm-laser-m...-/120711310127

My question & sellers response:

Hi, interested in a pair of these - coule you tell me what the beam correction optics are please?

i.e. is it just a focus lens resulting in a 1x3mm stripe beam or is it a prism pair or cylindrical lens etc giving a round beam?

Thanks,
Adrian

Response:

Hi,

As the beam has been focused and it is dot, so I do not think you need another lens to focus it.

Regards
Tony

[White-Light]

I'm pretty sure Andy Con from this forum is building 445 modules.

[SideFX]

Hi I've been looking at a pair of these for satellites & will be watching the results you get as I asked a question and wasn't sure about the response:

/.../

As the beam has been focused and it is dot, so I do not think you need another lens to focus it.

Regards
Tony

hehehe were you really expecting more then a mere focussing lens in these modules?

[dilbert]

Worth a try as I have a cheap QTX projector here which has what looks like a mini cylinder pair glued on the 445! Beam specs actually very good at distance but the module is very flimsy...

I've already had a chat with Andy and will probably be getting him to make me a pair.

[djmatt]

Just a word of warning!!!!
Watch out for the bounce off the front glass!!!! I "had" a Revo 500RGB and the thing killed its self by the reflection off the front glass....

[Lassie]

Just a word of warning!!!!
Watch out for the bounce off the front glass!!!! I "had" a Revo 500RGB and the thing killed its self by the reflection off the front glass....

Yeah my laser also bounces of the glass and shines inward and sometimes against the laserhead....is this bad? and so...how can i correct this?

[taggalucci]

Yeah my laser also bounces of the glass and shines inward and sometimes against the laserhead....is this bad? and so...how can i correct this?

Get some Edmund Optics anti-reflective glass.

[dsli_jon]

Hi there -

...and so...how can i correct this?

Get some Edmund Optics anti-reflective glass.

Yep, called 'CDAR', found here: http://www.edmundoptics.com/products...ow=1&PageNum=1 - and another 'pro-tip' is mod your aperture 'window-frame', to build yourself a little 'shim', to angle the glass-back, about 2-5˚, ie:

DSC03151.JPG

...and make sure you make angled 'side-panels' for the frame, too, so you can still maintain a good 'seal' against dust / fog, etc... This-way, even the miniscule <1% reflection will *still* not make it-back thru your optical-train to your diodes and eliminate any annoying 'double-image' coming-back off the galvo-shafts, etc...

Hope this helps....
j

[teknofon]

no prism
the text stated "Beam Diameter at aperture (mm):2.0±2" not true, it's more 2mmx6mm
it only has a clamp and a lens
i have not opened it but that's what i can see looking at the lens

and i asked the seller if the beam diameter was smaller then 3mm,
because i use the dt-40wide scanners and the maximum diameter
they can be used with is 3mm
he told me that the beam was smaller then 3mm

and he promised me to send it so that i would have it before the 16th
i was going to use it at gig today, but i got it today the 19th

i think this was the first and last time that i buy from this seller

now i have to find someone else that can sell me the red 1w and green 0.5w
any suggestions?
i'm not interested in buying expensive viasho lasers

(btw this is my first solid but i have 2 hene 3 argons and one ar/kr
gas is more fun

Hi I've been looking at a pair of these for satellites & will be watching the results you get as I asked a question and wasn't sure about the response:

Item: http://cgi.ebay.com/1W-445nm-laser-m...-/120711310127

My question & sellers response:

Hi, interested in a pair of these - coule you tell me what the beam correction optics are please?

i.e. is it just a focus lens resulting in a 1x3mm stripe beam or is it a prism pair or cylindrical lens etc giving a round beam?

Thanks,
Adrian

Response:

Hi,

As the beam has been focused and it is dot, so I do not think you need another lens to focus it.

Regards
Tony

[norty303]

i'm not interested in buying expensive viasho lasers

Viasho are actually very reasonably priced

[dilbert]

Hmmm, thanks for sharing that - I suspected from the response I got & waited. Hopefully you can just add some beam correction or just a better lens like the o-like should give you a 1mmx3mm beam for not much $.

[teknofon]

where can i buy a easy to mount beam correction prism?

[drm916]

Sidefx

Did you ever test with the modulation signals coming straight from the db25 pins? Or get a different ilda breakout board? Curious to see how you get the green analog.

[SideFX]

Sidefx

Did you ever test with the modulation signals coming straight from the db25 pins? Or get a different ilda breakout board? Curious to see how you get the green analog.

Yes, I've soldered the green modulation line directly on the db25 connector, and all modules are now analog modulated. The blue and red are still going through the existing board.. I probably should finish the job someday and completely remove this board.. but at this point I see no modulation deifferences between the green and red/blue.

I have no decent pictures yet.. but I can show you this one: 271760_211824642193055_208489279193258_555533_7345861_o.jpg
Here you see my two RGB's playing together. The one on the right is the CL-RGB2000

[drm916]

Thank you.

Glad to see it worked out. I was hoping it would because the price point is very attractive.