Looking for Laserist(s) to Book for July 2012 Outdoor Festval

[archanotechnician]

Dates are July 27-29th, prefer someone who could be out the 26th for stage setup.

THe festival will be called Old Growth 4, several International Dj's, Live Psychdelic Melodic Guitar and Violin performances, Electronic Dance Music, Psytrace, etc.

We would liek to eventually purchase our own laser setup, but any aerial projector greater than 1 watt is muy spensive and we are a small group.

So, we will pay gas costs, comp a ticket or two. Possibly a small fee.

If interested post here with a video of your setup, and i'd be glad to answer any questions.

Thanks,

Moksha Music

[archanotechnician]

OH and i forgot to mention, it will be around Ozark, Arkansas

[Phredy1]

2 things:

1. Outdoor shows ---> 5+ watt of RGB or 1.5+ watt of green or it will look like crap. And you will need a ton of fog. 5+ gallons of fog juice and probably 2 big fog machines.

2. Your budget is gas and free tickets...???? GOOD LUCK!

[gottaluvlasers]

LOL-

Why is it that all of a sudden people who try to hire laserists think they are doing us a favor by trying to treat us like crack heads? How insulting (i dont know, maybe its me ) is it to hear...

1) We cant pay you that much. OK, than why the hell are you calling us? Do you think we run a business promoting Laser light show charity shows??
2) We dont have a lot of money but we'll put your name on our flyers. LOL- ok, GREAT- Ill bring that flyer to my bank to pay my mortgage.
3) Well, Ill let you drink for free (or bar tab). AWESOME!!! that would have worked when i Was 21 and in college.
4) Well, there will be the possibility for MANY more events with bigger budgets. GREAT!!! then pay me what i deserve now, and you'll recoop your money from your other shows.
5) Sorry, we dont have a big budget BUT we *WANT* 5 lasers for a big outdoor event. LOL- same mentality that helped put this country into a recession. People *WANTING* $1M houses but who earn $25,000 / year. What you *WANT* and what you can *AFFORD* are 2 VERY different things.

Archanotechnician-

Sorry bother, but any REASONABLE *PROFESSIONAL* Laser company or individual who would do a *PROFESSIONAL* job with certified/legal PROPER equipment would put you into a budget of a MINIMUM of $20,000 for this show. And even THAT price is on the low end. you are looking at ~4-5 days of contracting time, labor and equipment. If it were my company i wouldnt answer this phne call for less than probably $25,000. ESPECIALLY with the equipment needed and being that it is outdoors.

Gas and ticket costs? no respectable company would bring 2 radio shack strobe lights for that "compensation."

-Marc

[steve-o]

I could bring my 2 5mw laser-widows and a pack of cigarettes ..

[Photonphart]

Dont listen to steve .... i can guarantee that the cigarettes are not what you need

I can do for the same deal but with..... 4 Mag-lites and a Cuban Cigar ..... this smoke provides a finer haze .... although the beam divergence is not so good ... the flavour is fantasic ....

Mr B

[White-Light]

I could kind of foresee this thread going that way.

Lets look, if CT Lasers were to do this show, then...

I'm guessing he'd probably bring for an outdoor show something like:

1. His 10 Watt RGB system given its outdoors..

2. 2x 5 Watt green sats

3. 3 x Pangolin LD or Beyond systems & Laptop

4. 4 large smoke machines eg Jem Hi Mass

5. Smoke fluid - 150ml per minute = 150 x 60 = 9 litres an hour for Jem Hi Mass on high x 4 = 36 litres an hour for 4 machines = 360 litres per day based on 10 hour day = 1440 litres over 4 days

6. Cabling

7. Fans

Assuming you're providing the rigging and everything else needed that's approx $70,000 worth of equipment.

In smoke fluid costs alone you've a bill approaching $10,500 (approx $1,500 per 220 litre drum of SP Mix x 7 drums).

So even ignoring equipment costs and doing it for $0 rental and $0 wages, you'd expect him to do the shows at a cost to himself of $10,500 in materials + Petrol + Food & 4 days Lodging in return for a couple of free tickets.

See the problem with the request?

TBH if it was in doors and a 1 day event, you wouldn't get it for free tickets either but given the costs and requirements would be a lot lower, I'm guessing a show quote would be a lot smaller. Probably around $1-2,000 at a guess (I don't know the rates in the US).

[danielbriggs]

In smoke fluid costs alone you've a bill approaching $10,500

I'm sorry, but:
BOLLOCKS!
()


Right... got that off my chest; continue.

[norty303]

^^ Damn, got there before me...

That said, there ARE festivals of the DIY kind, where people do go, and provide services, for very cheap and/or tickets (although normally an allocation that can be sold to recoup cold hard cash), but you need to tap into potentially a different market of providers, and have a reputation that the event is going to be totally awesome and worth being involved in.
The important part is ensuring that everyone of your providers perceives every other one to be gettign the same treatment/deal, otherwise it can get awkward...

[White-Light]

I'm sorry, but:
BOLLOCKS!
()


Right... got that off my chest; continue.

Figures are from Martin's own brochure: http://www.martin.com/spec/composite...=jemzr44himass

On full output the high mass use 150ml per minute!

Alternative foggers may use less, but for the Hi Mass the figures are correct based on 4 foggers run at full power for 10 hours per day over 4 days. Obviously if winds are light and there's little drift so you're running less power or fogging at intervals then it will be less.

[norty303]

I suspect some people are grossly overestimating the size of this festival and the stages involved.
I would think someone with a half decent fogger (who knows about placement) and 1 or 2 1w-3w lasers (of any colour/s) would be just what they're looking for.

[dsli_jon]

See the problem with the request?

..Don't forget the close to 10 hrs (..in Total, between Report-prep / follow-up / questions / clarifications, etc) for the FAA 7140-submission... a Co's time is *not* 'free', especially when said-7140 is being done exclusively-on behalf of said show...In this-instance, the 'budget' would be blown even before anyone rolls out the door...
So, yeah, sorry - Show-for-beer / tix:

@ archanotechnician - Can you arrange to 'bag a Sponsor', for the laser-show portion? For a large-scale Outdoor event / to be impressive-enough, you'd need a *minimum* of $9.5 - 10.5K - for one nite - subsequent-nites would be less, but Marc is prolly-about spot-on.. anyone telling you otherwise, is probably also selling snake-oil...

If you do-find 'someone' that is willing to do this, for 'less', some advice: Make them *show-you*, their Valid / Current (letter from CDRH, stating that 'last years' Annual-Report was filed / their Var is extended thru Dec. 2012..) US Show Variance, a 'positive LOD' (letter of determination..) from the FAA, saying the show has 'no-objections' from them / this 'airspace', and, adequate Liability-Insurance from the Co. naming you / the Event producers as 'added-insured'... The risks are not worth *any* amount of 'discount', otherwise...

Dos (experienced..) centavos...
j

[norty303]

^^ Sorry I forgot its vastly easier for people to get out and do shows here on a shoestring than in the States.
Jon, do you need to do the FAA is the beams are terminated?

[dsli_jon]

Heya Nort -

Jon, do you need to do the FAA is the beams are terminated?

One of those 'fuzzy-areas'...*technically*, if it's not 'open-air', you shouldn't have-to... and, some of the Regional-specialists will say (depending, ie, if it's in a 'wide-open area', or, yes, Outdoors, but, say, under a 'covered-roof' / tent, w/open-sides, etc..) 'Nah, don't bother...we won't do a study, etc' - cause it's also a good-deal of work, for them, once you submit... *However*...

..especially if it is in an 'unenclosed-area' - even-if all beams are well-terminated, etc - and by 'well', I mean, walls, chimneys, etc.. 'tree-banks' can be-iffy, unless super-dense.. It is still the 'smart / best-practice / CYA'-route, to-file... that-way, IF - IF - a 'stray-beam' should somehow-ever venture-past a tree or beam-stop, etc, ie: while you're focusing mirs, etc.. well - you 'filed', and CYA'd... ...Helps cut-down on the chance of those nasty 'SWAT / FBI-smackdowns', too...

..additionally, you 'build-up a relationship' with them / 'portrait' of responsibility, so they 'get to know you' / Your Co. and think highly of you, for being so astute... Even-if they, internally, choose not to do a 'full Aero-study / issue a NOTAM', etc, well, again - you've CYA'd, by-filing / letting them at-least know 'what's going on'... ..it also helps 'boost the image' of the entire Pro-Sho Industry, as-well... helps the 'cause' if / when we ever have to go and 'fight for our right to paaaar-tay'...

..These are things you 'learn' over the years...
cheers..
j

[Phredy1]

Archanotechnician:

I'll do it for $19,995 cash plus gas from WA.

Sorry to under bid you Marc......

[Phredy1]

I would think someone with a half decent fogger (who knows about placement) and 1 or 2 1w-3w lasers (of any colour/s) would be just what they're looking for.

IMO I don't think a 1w RGB or anything other than maybe a 1w green would be acceptable for an outdoor event.

[dsli_jon]

....maybe a 1w green would be acceptable..

Mmmm, I suggest adding about 39-more W's...

IMHO....

cheers..
j

[norty303]

IMO I don't think a 1w RGB or anything other than maybe a 1w green would be acceptable for an outdoor event.

You're entitled to your opinion, but see these...



Remember, if it didn't work out right, I doubt the laserist concerned would have to worry too much about damage to reputation, because I doubt they're a big show co to begin with.

My advice is to check out your local free party/techno/psytrance sound system crews and see who they use or have on their crew that does lighting/lasers. Or look at other small fests/events that you know have lasers but no budget to see how they are doing it.

[norty303]

And because I can only do 1 vid per post...

[norty303]

and same again...............

[JohnYayas]

I don't see any problem with the request because it is only a feeler. Besides, sometimes companies do step up and do things for free in return for publicity or to be able to put there name on a ticket. Obviously, you guys are not those companies. The problem I see here is the attitude within the responses, not the request.

[norty303]

^^ Hear hear

I go out and do stuff I enjoy, not necessrily for free, but for below what many here would consider 'beneath them', and have a blast, get more work, earn a bit and meet cool people.

It won't pay the mortgage, but I knew that already when I started out. In most cases, a small festival organiser doesn't want to be approaching a large show co anyway, in the same way that a rave promoter probably doesn't want to approach a corporate audio firm for their sound system. Go to the people that do what 'you' do, and understand the way you work, and what the events are all about.

Nothing worse than having a sound guy, lighting guy or laserist who is in a scene he/she knows nothing about, not enjoying themselves, and not giving a good show as a result.

In fact, for anyone who is moaning about the lack of work, go out and do just one low price gig, and you'll see what a good investment it can be (I'm referring to the club/party/small festy market here). I had a layoff of about 2 years from any real party work, and it was one festival, based on a referral from a friendly sound guy that kicked it all off again.

[Bradfo69]

The problem I see here is the attitude within the responses, not the request.

I have to throw in an "I agree" here. The OP was really kind of talked down to/made fun of by some. I understand the response completely but, if I were a relatively new promoter who searched and found PL to asked this question, my thought would be, "Wow, what a bunch of pricks." Nothing wrong with the information, and saying, "Hey, you're going to find it difficult to get someone to help with this because..." Um, it's Arkansas..... not Miami, Atlanta, Vegas etc. Maybe someone WOULD do it for gas/beer/tickets/exposure/food. The OP doesn't know that.

It was just the delivery of the message.

[Bradfo69]

Now, since the damage has been done already, I'll add my own snarkiness and say, "Psytrance festival in Arkansas??? Me thinks a green laser pointer and some strategically placed foil gum wrappers, and some Marlboro smoke will handle the entire crowd." Arkansas... really???

(Kiddin'!)

[Phredy1]

IMO the responses were spot on. What kind of response do you think you would get if you went to a car dealer and said your budget was $312 for a new car, but you would let them put a dealer sticker on the bumper?

Come on guys, the promoter that wants a laser show for next to free is nothing new. At least he was honest enough to say up front he has no money, instead of "Dude I don't have the money now but I'll pay you out of the gate. I promise." And most of us know how that turns out....