Looking for Laserist(s) to Book for July 2012 Outdoor Festval

[norty303]

But again Norty your posts and those immediately above skip over the costs of:

1. Huge volumes of smoke fluid

2. Travelling expenses

3. 4 nights hotel / motel accommodation

4. 4 nights / 3 days food and drink

Ok Al, I'll go over each in turn for you...

1. Huge volumes of smoke fluid

By your estimation, based on some wildly over-estimated need for 4 foggers running flat out, because you understand it to be a large festival, and not the grass roots festival it likely is.

Based on my estimation of it being a gig that they'd be happy with a couple of 1-2W 532 heads, and some well thought out placement, I think you could do the weekend on 5 gallons. As an expense, I'd be looking for them to pick that up. It certainly isn't, however, a $10k cost.

2. Travelling expenses

I guess they're looking for someone local if they have no budget. Now, over here, local is quite easy, but as they already say they're going to cover 'gas', even the larger distances involved shouldn't be a problem for the laserist should it?

3. 4 nights hotel / motel accommodation

This one had me falling off my chair. It's a festival... you take a tent, or sleep in your van/wagon. You are not a superstar, and as you're doing this for 'free' (i.e. not costing you anything, versus actually having to put your hand in your own pocket) because you 'want' to be there, being 'in amongst it' is all part of the 'experience'.

4. 4 nights / 3 days food and drink

Most festivals I've worked have either a crew catering facility, or are happy to pay basic subsistence, even for the freebies.


Now to the other stuff...

Also, you mention the days when people provided lasers for free for raves, but wasn't it long ago you and others were moaning about how low fees were in the UK? In fact didn't you turn down a £100 1 night gig according to a recent thread because it was insulting? Do you not think you made your own bed? In relation to the £100 fee, a case of pot calling kettle black maybe?

Not at all. To be clear, it was a £300 'a night' gig, which happened to be a 20 hour long party in a squat (til 6pm Sunday evening - I do have a dayjob Monday, and I'm not getting any younger...), with a promoter who has a bad reputation. If it hadn't been him, and it had finished earlier, and the comms we had made me feel a bit easier about it, AND I wasn't putting myself and kit at more risk than usual due ot the venue, then I most probably would've gone out for the night and had a good one.

And its not the days 'when' people used to do stuff for free - it's going on today, all the time, just less visibly. I'm off to do a gig 15 miles up the road on Friday night for £250 because the promoter is someone I've known for a while, I like what he does, and I enjoy being involved in what he does, with the people. And thats lighting AND lasers. Am I killing the trade? I don't think so. The event has a small budget, and couldn't otherwise afford what I'm providing, so I'm not taking anyone's business away. I've got 5 projectors sitting around - I'll go and have a play.

As I've said several times in this thread, if the costs of doing this weren't so high, I'm sure someone would step forwards. However being a 4 day outdoor event with huge equipment requirements and very high personal costs to do the event make it unrealistic for most to do pro bono unless they're prepared to effectively pay $2K for 2 free tickets and do 4 days of unpaid work in addition, because that's just about what it amounts to.

As I've said a few times before, I'm reasonably sure it is in fact nothing like what you believe it to be, and neither are the costs.


I towuld be lovely for the OP to come back and clarify some of the details here, as it is, we're stabbing in the dark.

[p1t8ull]

In the UK, there is quite a rich history from the free festival and free party scene of the 90's

Hopefully you can make a LEM sometime, a few of us seasoned farts can chink a beer and talk about the good old days..

Oioi

[norty303]

Seriously, I'm really trying to make a LEM.

It's also unfortunate that the September one is usually the weekend after I have a festival.... in Lincolnshire!
By the time I've got back from the 600 mile round trip on Monday/Tuesday, I'm not too up for another drive back 3 days later!

[White-Light]

You're probably right that without clarification we are all stabbing in the dark as to size.

[p1t8ull]

Seriously, I'm really trying to make a LEM

I'm not having a serious dig, but if it helps you get there then maybe a 'lil one smiley-taunt003.gif

[dnar]

I have been doing shows for FREE.

Why? Because it suits me. It has given me the chance to develop my show skills, setups (now including satellites). I have been doing 2 shows per month at our local Hackerspace factory. One show per month is an experimental music night, the other a late night Electronic/EBM/Dubstep dance night. I have at least negotiated to the point that the space provides Martin fluid and a few drinks. Out of this experience, I am developing my shows and meeting others int he industry inc. radio, producers, and event organisers. It's been invaluable.

[Mlenox]

I have been doing shows for FREE.

Why? Because it suits me. It has given me the chance to develop my show skills, setups (now including satellites). I have been doing 2 shows per month at our local Hackerspace factory. One show per month is an experimental music night, the other a late night Electronic/EBM/Dubstep dance night. I have at least negotiated to the point that the space provides Martin fluid and a few drinks. Out of this experience, I am developing my shows and meeting others int he industry inc. radio, producers, and event organisers. It's been invaluable.

I wish forums had a "Like" Button. Haha

[dsli_jon]

It lives! LMNOPQRST

[archanotechnician]

Hello, sorry to have taken so long to reply to the many posts. My thanks to those who sent me offers and helpful information. It was not my intention to step on the toes of such Big Companies as would require $10k+ in fees, and in truth my request was not directed to such folks anyway. I was more looking for hobbyists who would like to provide enterntaiment while they themselver were entertained. We have a couple such folks that have agreed to come out, and will be in touch with those that sent me booking information for larger systems.

We greatly rely on the generosity and community spirit of those who support us with their various talents and equipment. Our big sound systems are privately owned, and many of our artists are personal freinds and industry contacts of the booking managers. We are a newly formalized company, but our group has been working together to provide low cost/high quality shows across the midwest for more than 5 years. Our purpose is simply to provide exposure to unique forms of art and music that would otherwise not be brought into the spotlight, and to provide a place where like-minded individuals may enjoy nature in a way that is becomeing increasingly less available.

We will not begin public advertiseing until after February 11th, when all our contracts are finalized. Wakarusa is a much larger event than ours, but is located right up the road from the venue we will be using. Our projected attendance is around 3-400, as we prefer smaller more intimate community gatherings. As of now the Main headliner is Cosmosis, but artists are being booked daily.

Once again thanks for the interest!

[norty303]

As of now the Main headliner is Cosmosis

Nice! Transient is an awesome label.


Sounds similar to a lot of the smaller 'psy/hippeh' fests in the UK that I work. Glad you got some good responses.

[archanotechnician]

Yes, our normal client base would fall under the "hippie" catagory. haha I must admit I was quite disillusioned with the responses until i read your description of the UK scene, which was spot on with what we do. Many thanks good sir...

[smogthemog]

seriously, i'm really trying to make a lem.

It's also unfortunate that the september one is usually the weekend after i have a festival.... In lincolnshire!
By the time i've got back from the 600 mile round trip on monday/tuesday, i'm not too up for another drive back 3 days later!

festival in lincolnshire....................... Where??????????????????????????

[norty303]

Conningsby, usually around the 15th, 16th each year. Bit later this year by the look of it.
http://www.alchemyfestival.co.uk/
He has some smaller ones through the year before that one though

[dsli_jon]

Hi archano

..I was quite disillusioned with the responses until..

First, (..since I'm speaking directly to-you, now.. Welcome to PL.. you (obviously) did come to the 'right place', and I'm happy to hear that you've found some one to accomodate you... I will, however, still recommend that - for your own sake / sake of your Event - you make sure the Co you've got on-board is wholly-familiar with the FAA-regs for Outdoor laser shows, and will be able to demonstrate their qualifications (Varianced / legal / insured, etc..) to put on - yes - even-for this 'small-caliber' of-an Outdoor show...

Why am I so 'rabid' about this topic? ..well, to put it 'in-context', see the first-post thread - http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...118#post221118

..Yes, I know - you 'won't be having someone like this' at your-fest / you'd never allow it, etc, etc - and I'm not 'implying' that you would - Simply using it a *one* example, of how, when people decide to 'take it off the ranch' - in other words, not 'play by the rules', for safety's-sake, with lasers - things can get really stupid, really-fast... Yes, such 'illegal' and clearly-unsafe effects may be 'cool-looking', but, the reason that it's so-much-more a concern for Outdoor-shows, is, if a Co is similarly irresponsible - but instead of shooting beams into the audience, they're shooting into the skies? - The 'consequences' could-impact the entire-industry, not just those in the aud / your-Event...

Yeah, I know - some will respond to me that I'm just 'spreading paranoia' and / or 'over-reacting', etc - but, my retort is, a) with the huge-proliferation of 'cheap', high-power laser systems, here in the US, in the past couple years, it's practically next to nothing for someone to buy some multi-watt shinola-box, slap a name-tag on themselves, and, suddenly - they're a "Laser Show Co"... No training - no experience ramp-up - and often - not a-clue what doing a truly good job - safely - is all-about.

..b) Since they 'bought their stripes' vs 'earned-them', there tends to be less of a sense of responsability / liability, than with those that 'took the long-road'... I'm not saying, in every-case, but, far more-often than-not, we see stuff being spawned, like that 'LED-robot guy', who, not only gives this industry a 'black-eye', but very-well may actually damage someones' sight, as-well.. Much-worse when this type of 'cavalier-attitude' / clueless-operation is brought Outdoors, because now, they're risking irking the FAA - which has much bigger teeth, and can / does act, much quicker than the FDA (..who wrote the 'Regs')...

..the FAA does not muck-around, and they've got much-greater 'influence' in Congress, etc, and we just don't want to ever have to 'suffer a moratorium' again / lose all the 'progress' that the Pro Sho-industry has gained, in the past few years, in 'helping them' to know / recognize the difference, between 'illegal hack-shows' / pointer-people incidents, and legitimate laser-shows being performed... Yes - there are those in the 'ALPA' (Airline Pilot's Association) that would-have us (legitimate laser shows) 'lumped-in' - legal-repercussions-wise - with those that, ie: point lasers at planes / copters, etc - that type of 'broad-brush' legislation would have *horribly complicating* consequences, for the entire-industry - much in the same way that the recently-flaring 'SOPA / PIPA' are ill-conceived, towards the aim of 'protecting IP', etc.. We *must* fight such 'ignorance' / homogenizing-legislation in the laser-show / safe-airspace arena, as-well..

..Why in the world am I typing this all to You - as-if you're 'somehow not already aware' of this all? Because - generally-speaking - we observe that the 'recipe' of: Multi-watts of laser light-needed (..to achieve a 'satisfying-result' - this Event, small as it-is, cannot be done with '5mW', for-example, if you're going to have other lights, etc..) + Outdoor, possibly open-air fx, desired + near-Zero budget = Not a very-good 'recipe for success', for all-involved, nor a job for an unseasoned sho-entity...

..and, I write this (probably overstated explanation to hopefully just help you appreciate the 'motives', behind some of the previous-posts - we don't mean to 'squash the spirit', or come-across like heartless, capitalist-pigs but again, generally-speaking, the above-stated concerns have all-been historically-validated.. So, if you have been able to secure a legal / safe / experienced Co, that can also work with your 'start-up' placement... Indeed - Good for You... ..and Thanks for 'working alongside us', in striving to keep laser shows fun - and safe - and w/O increasing the risk of further-choking regs / restrictions. etc.. As us old-hippies would say, Can ya Dig it?

So, I'm gonna shut up, now, and Wish you the Very Best... ...and go wipe this egg off...

cheers..
j

[archanotechnician]

I appreciate your concerns, and its always good to have knowledgeable folks to help stop the spread of misinformation. After all thats the reason I posted in this particular online community. That video is a wonderful example of willful ignorance in action! We put our attendees safety first and recived a lengthy report on lasers from our Safety and Compliance Manager soon after it was suggested to provide a laser show. As a result our managers are now fairly knowledgeable on the 2.5(&3) meter rule, beam termination points, audience scanning health regs, wavlength dangers, FAA application forms, variances, etc.

Our current limited budget is not proportional to the ammount of research that goes into our events. While capitolism is the underlying force behind any buisness, a client oriented focus makes a good buisness. We strive for professionalism and hope with time, to establish a basis of respect with the various connected entertainment industries.

I hope that egg was free range organic.
M.

[Phredy1]

When I read your first post my initial thought was: a typical promoter wanting a free laser show so he can make more $.

After reading your second post, I think that I (and likely the others that slammed you) was wrong in my assumptions of what you were asking for.

From me - an apology. I hope your show goes well.

[p1t8ull]

festival in lincolnshire....................... Where??????????????????????????

Smoggers, you get a reputation for somehow managing to find the most interesting and desirable lasers tucked away in corners of the world that even the great almighty himself doesn't know exist, then you fuck it all up by not noticing a festival at the bottom of your garden?
x

[smogthemog]

LOL! Your too right Si, a certified plank I am
Can't bloody afford to eat these days so thats all in the past now
Although you wouldn't think it with me extra tyre