Senior Member
FYI, I have seen (one of) him in person, although it was not in the US I can guarantee he had some 1 watt light sabers coming out of his arms. There are several designs and several different robots. Last I knew of they owned 4 world wide
isnt the threshold of 445nm like 200mw. Its been awhile since I tinkered with one
Senior Member
Yep, the spec sheet states between 150 and 300mA. From memory the 445's I tested lased at around 100mA when I tested them a while back, it's got to be at least 100mW.Originally Posted by dream beamz
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.
el gringo loco
Oh, no no no no.... Let's be clear about something.. First, though, lemme 'interrupt-myself' to also make it clear - I'm not 'jumping down your throat' / picking on *you*, in-particular, ok?Please - I don't want you to 'mis-understand-me'...
- But, I *do* want to use your comments as a 'springboard', to make this point crystal-clear:
..100mW+ STATIC-BEAMS ARE WELL-MORE THAN POWERFUL-ENOUGH TO CAUSE PERMANENT EYE-DAMAGE, PEOPLE!!!! Doubt-this? Read the attached PDF, especially Page 6....
e894l9k.pdfWhat would 100mW be, 'at the retina'??Some types of eye-surgery is done with between 100mW and 250mW of Argon!!
...I'm not-saying that 'in every-single instance, a 100mW+ beam, swept-across the eye, *will* cause damage / blindness, 100% of the time - a lot of 'factors' come into play - blink-time response, how close to the fovea the 'hit' was, how long the beam was focused on the retina, beam-characteristics (both dia. and div.), and, yes, even 'laser color', etc...
..But, I feel obligated to, again, stress this point, 'obnoxiously-loud' because, -some- in this forum, in the past, spout-off misguiding-opinions, like, 'oh, yeah, even 200mW is 'not all that dangerous', or, accuse statements, like the above, as just being 'paranoia' / traffic-wardening, etc - BULL CRAP!! Go beam yourself in the eye with a static 100mW beam, and see how well it works out for ya!!!(Disclaimer: 'rhetorical-point', being-made, don't actually go do that!
I would never feel the need to even-post such a 'silly-disclaimer', but - remember that unbelievable post over in 'LPF' where that guy posted a pic of his (reportedly) 'deliberate' 2W 445 arm-burns', remember that ****??
..I firmly-stand on my strong-opin that such 'flippant' / cavalier-attitudes, (...'it's not 'that dangerous'..) expressed by-some, CAN-be, at least, in-part, what *leads* to crap like this.. If people - now, due to the PROC / other proliferators of powerful-lasers into whomever's-hands have the dollars for them - have little to no-clue, what the actual danger-levels / bioeffects are, then - they hear / read 'not that dangerous', etc. then yes, this kind-of crap will continue to worsen, more and more... Education - that's what the people that sell this stuff, the buyers, and - club / venue-owners, need, not 'more laws'..
Sure, there will always-be people who 'don't care', etc - but.. imo, we gotta at least *try* to 'better-things', when / where-possible... At LEAST, disseminate *accurate* information, in such a widely-read / cached-forum! Accurately-present the dangers - neither over-exaggerated, nor-under - just-because *you* (..I mean, 'someone', not you, kiyoukan..
Anyhoo, point-is - how much-power is this 'kryo-idiot' using / is it enough to actually-cause damage?? Dunno, but, even if it is, indeed, 'only' 100mW, that is almost 'criminal', to shoot-people in the face / eyes-with near-static beams.. The only thing that may 'excuse' him, at least, initially, is he - like many - simply does not understand that what he is doing, can actually be-dangerous, not just 'illegal'...which he clearly does not give a * about...
Grrrrgh. Lemme know if anyone finds-out if he plans to perform in AZ, at any-point...
<<RANT: END>> ..and again.. Not 'at-ya', kiyoukan, along-side ya...
peace..
j
.."...It's *supposed* to be hard!! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it...
..............The 'hard'... is what makes it great!" - J. Dugan
Senior Member
Damn that's a lot of underlined werds! You deserve a Star.
I'm with ya on this topic brother, just a few mW can damage an retina or worse still, an optic nerve (read lights out)...
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.
Senior Member
i take no offense or hard feeling to what you said.
But when i first saw those blue beams i thought shit he is waving around 1W 445nm lasers like a idiot.
Then reading they they were "MAYBE" 100mw i was kinda like okay i might not shove my car up his ass if i met him maybe just a foot.
The basic rules of lasers, dont point at living things. How hard is it for people to just not do that.
Laser shows still look amazing without it.
Sure i would love to crowd scan but the risk that goes with it is just to much for me to ever do.
Senior Member
I would bet that eventually, once people are aware of the risks with this show, a few will put 2 and 2 together and realize their eye problems have been caused by these "shows". When the Lawyers get rolling on this one, someone is going to loose more than their house!
Lets face it, how could people not be injured by what we have seen in those videos? Hopefully the FDA will think the same.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.
el gringo loco
@ Dr Steel....Lol, yeah, I think Norty's right.. I do need counceling...
@ kiyo.. Cool, Mang... Just wanted to use your post as a 'spring', not kick ya in the pelotas..
peace, out..
j
..............The 'hard'... is what makes it great!" - J. Dugan
Senior Member
Well, to apply some science...how could people not be injured by what we have seen in those videos?
MPE = 10% of the dose that has 50% chance of causing damage.
So the dose that has 50% chance of causing damage (under worst case conditions, so direct hit, full frontal to the eye I'd say...) is 10 times MPE.
Now, add in a large beam diameter, and potentially divergent beam, and at 100mW, it is reasonably easy to see how it might not...
Not wishing to play down the issue, but being over MPE doesn't necessarily equal instant eye damage.
That said, if its a well focussed beam, at 1000mW, then it could be an entirely different story...
You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?
I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.
Senior Member
The Tommorrowland Incident according to ILDA was with a laser pointer of 200mw plus: http://www.laserist.org/2009-07_Belgian-incident.htm
I think its important to stress how much more dangerous an unmodulated laser - I believe laser pointers are unmodulated - is compared to a projector. I found that recently myself albeit crudely - 2.8W modulated didn't burn card from 30 feet even with a static beam (although the light was warm to touch - you wouldn't want that in your eye). However the same 2.8W static beam that was unmodulated, set wood on fire within a second! This doesn't mean projectors are safe because they're modulated, there are still dangers, just that unmodulated sources appear to be many magnitudes more dangerous at any given power.
However Norty is right about divergence, that's going to play a big part. I'm sure its been said before that a small increase in divergence increases laser safety by much more than a small decrease in power. Hence the trend towards safety lenses.
They say video games are bad for kids but if Pacman had affected us we'd all be running around in darkrooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Senior Member
Maybe he's using those special 'patented' lasers which are claimed to be perfectly audience-safe for those Romanian dancers.
Also, he's using what looks like portable CO2 jets blasting LOTS of liquid CO2 into the audience. That's a serious asphyxiation hazard.
Senior Member
I've seen places doing more:
They say video games are bad for kids but if Pacman had affected us we'd all be running around in darkrooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Senior Member
I think that most proper club CO2 systems have air quality monitors and cannot be triggered without sufficient oxygen present... The Megatron machine definitely does...
Back to the subject in hand, here is some food for thought... A *very* experienced friend of mine sent me these pics and asked me to use them exactly for this purpose... He took a hit aligning a 200mw laser and here is what happened:
Healthy retina:
256892_1951337577310_1058739808_32242188_8319001_o.jpg
One day after exposure:
244047_1951337657312_1058739808_32242189_6867811_o.jpg
2 years after exposure:
242138_1951337457307_1058739808_32242187_2246497_o.jpg
3 years after exposure:
243447_1951337857317_1058739808_32242190_7288933_o.jpg
Scary Stuff !!!!
He can still see out of the damaged eye, but has no depth of vision in it... Just goes to show, milliwatts does not equal safe, especially at short range...
Mark
Senior Member
after i commented on his fb wall, guy has forbidden comments as i used the combination of words "dangerous" and possibly "illegal" activity, what a retard
Junior Member
He blocked you as a 'fan' from seeing his wall. I'm looking at his page right now and it is open to the public's comments, just can't be market as "spam" or "blocked" by the admin. He clearly knows what he is doing is illegal which makes this guy an even bigger idiot as he is screening concerned comments off his wall so the general public has no idea what he is doing is possibly dangerous to the audience.
Corporate Member ILDA
Senior Member
i have had a similar problem in Taiwan; post here: http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...ous-and-stupid
i was on their case a bit but just a bunch of excuses is all i got, so...
recently in taiwan a group of fire dancers burnt a club down resulting in a number of deaths, the media here was in a frenzy so now im compiling a short video outlining the dangers of laser pointers and this "ts fire groups" actions, with links to their site.
im gonna point out the eye and fire risk from laser pointers include some of their own video and a few pictures of balloon popping and eye damage scans plus shit going on fire from laser beams, and dare the news agencys to ask an eye surgeon the facts etc... then i intend to upload and send to one of the vicious media outlets here...
just the mention of fire risk will throw them into a frenzy after last year's horrible incident... taiwanese media love a good scandal/story ....i guarantee a response from the media here that will include harassment of this group by the media.
this is the way to deal with these things i have decided.
Senior Member
Be careful Dan. The risk of fire at any reasonable range with moderate size lasers is minimal. You may simply cause people to think you are being overly cautious and scaremongering and thus reject everything you have to say, including the important bit about eye damage
You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?
I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.
Senior Member
..............double post deleted
Last edited by Speculative Lasers - Dan; 02-06-2012 at 12:51. Reason: double post
Senior Member
yes i agree, we all know the risk of fire damage is minimal, however it is there, and linked to a fire performing group is enough for the taiwanese mindset. last year i think 7 people died, fireshows indoors are now banned (it is seldom any law is enforced but it caused a nationwide blitz, every club and promoter went under the hammer)and generally unpopular now in taiwan.
the mindset is sensationalism here, that will bait the media to investigate, just google taiwanese media like the apple newspaper,.... maybe i have no scruples, but well tbh they have it coming.
Member
Right on guys, nice to see people as ticked off as I am about this clown.
For the people that reported him to the FDA, please keep the forum posted if you happen to receive a response.
Thanks to Jon for providing the links to report offenders. Now let's see if anything happens.
I have a feeling he is lasing people's faces at close range on a nightly basis, so for him, nothing will change until he gets a visit.
He's making too much $$ to change his act.
He responed to Dan's inquiry on Facebook with "Hi, this is a stage performance for over 3000 people, the pointers have dimers + the pointers are above the crowd."
Yeah right.
Last edited by Andrew/DLS; 02-06-2012 at 16:50.
el gringo loco
My sentiments, exactly...Kudos to you / to others for tryin to 'keep laser-fun safe and sane'...
Anyhoo, here's another link / resource, I hadn't previously-seen: http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaPro...rs/default.htm
..and, I'd spam-bomb every facebooked, twittering, youtubeing myspace that guy has with INFO... ie: http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/Sa.../ucm237129.htm and http://www.laserinstitute.org/news/2...oses-a-hazard/ - create *awareness* of the facts / accurate-knowledge / how to do it right - EDUCATION, even at PL's kind of 'grassroots-level', not 'blanket-legislation'...
fwfw..
j
..............The 'hard'... is what makes it great!" - J. Dugan
Senior Member
He is getting ballsey now, a show in NYC
Junior Member
Damn that's cocky as hell. NYC isn't the most laser friendly city either. I wonder who has the power to make a shout out to a top level to get this reviewed tomorrow.
Corporate Member ILDA
Senior Member
if i had to listen to that "music" for 5 minutes... I would ask him to blind me and jab a knife in both of my ears so it would stop.
oh yeah the lasers...yeah they are dangerous but so is the x floating around. whatever... just another display of disrespect for audience safety to look cool...if i recall...we've seen lasers on dancers before...
Pat B on alt.lasers
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The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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Could someone drop by a pick me up a couple.
I'm running low ....................
Senior Member
It's ok, its an over 21 gig.
What's with all the "ladies" friendly conditions? Struggling to pull the women in?
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.
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