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Thread: Newbie with questions about DMX and ILDA.

  1. #1
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    Default Newbie with questions about DMX and ILDA.

    Where do I start? Well.. i guess it started with my first 75mw green laser pen I bought back in 2003 from WickedLasers.

    Then, two years ago I started incorporating lasers in my outdoor Christmas Display. Then I started adding lasers and got a pretty elaborate Halloween display going in 2011. Here is a video of my house this past season for Christmas. I'm the only one around that I have found that decorated like this and got a lot of positive feedback from neighbors and yes, even the police. I only had one grumpy neighbor that didn't care for music being played outside. I saved a hell of a lot of time on setup this year as well as electricity. I used great caution as to not let any light beems bleed off the edges of the house.



    The music was added after the video edit so the lights don't really go to the music on the video, but the lasers were set to music sensor with a small PA system playing outside. The display used 7 projectors, 4 of them are DMX 512 capable. I have an animation laser Reke 500rgb on the way for this year. So I was hoping to get some advice on reducing the chaos a bit by using a DMX512 controller for all the projectors and ILDA controller on the new Reke500. My experience with light controllers are old school, with just options like fade, chase, scene, etc etc. With the proper DMX controller, I will be able to for instance, control the REKE 07 blue motor laser to stay on a certain pattern such as a tunnel, fan, or plane? i'm assuming I'll have more than just on/off fade, chase commands at my disposal?

    I'm going to need suggestions for (at first) inexpensive controllers and ILDA software. Something good enough for me to keep evolving as I get into this further and something intuitive. I have a great deal of experience with video editing and music editing software, as well as Photoshop and other Adobe products and from what i've seen so far, it looks similar to other sequencing type software. USB interface would probably be ok, but I saw a place that has ethernet interface? If the computer could be fed a signal outside to a controller outside by ethernet, that would seem to be ideal. Especially if could be wireless using a wireless bridge of some sort. Although Cat6 would certainly be less expensive other kinds of cabling.

    Eventually I would like the display to be controlled completely by computer with an FM transmitter to send music to the street. Any suggestions would be helpful.. thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    A decent DMX controller will do that for you but you might want software for DMX too.
    I recommend Freestyler (www.freestylerdmx.be) as it is free and it does a great job. You also need a USB to DMX interface and with those you can go as expensive as you can get, and Freestyler supports a lot of them.
    I don't know how you want to do this. Do you want to have a timeline and create preprogrammed shows or do you want to do things live? Freestyler doesn't have a timeline function, but other software does.
    Software such as Pangolin, Spaghetti and LSX (all laser/ILDA aimed software) have both a timeline and DMX compatibility. Pangolin has a ILDA interface which works over ethernet as well as USB called the QM2000.net with decent software as I've heard. The only downside is it's price: about $2000 for the starters kit IIRC! They have a "cheaper" product, the FB3 ("""""""only"""""" about $550) but I don't remember if it supports DMX.

    Alternatives are the Easylase and the Etherdream DAC (DAC = digital to analog convertor, the standard term for interface here). There are two versions of the Easylase: one with and without DMX ports. If you go with the Easylase you probably want the one with DMX. This only works with USB. The Etherdream created by PL user j4cbo works, as the name suggests, with ethernet and I've heard lots of good things about it, but I don't think it supports DMX so you would still need a DMX interface. Or if you are on a really tight budget you might want to try a sound card dac: basically just a converted sound card. I think it's fine for home use but as such things tend to be rather unsafe don't go with them if you plan to go bigger.

    For software I'd recommend either Spaghetti (by PL user JohnYayas) or LSX (by drlava). Spaghetti is cheaper but is rather limited (however it's in development and lots of features are being announced). LSX is more expensive but worth every single cent with an amazing functionability, but I find it hard to use and rather high level (compared to Spaghetti). Both programs work with a timeline, and support DMX. Personally I think Spaghetti is better for combining music with laser and DMX, but LSX has a lot more to offer on the laser side. Also, LSX has a live function while Spaghetti has not. Spaghetti doesn't even have a frame creator tool.

    For now I'd say definately check out Freestyler and search ebay and other sites for a good deal on a DMX interface, or an Easylase or etherdream.

    Spaghetti home: http://www.hingednewt.com/Pages/default.aspx
    LSX home: http://hacylon.case.edu/ebay/laser_diode/LSX.php

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    I found this thing on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NETwork-DMX-...46213904273845 It looks like it would be the right interface. Now excuse me for being a newb, but is this how it all connects? I go from computer running a software mixer out from the computer using ethernet to this interface. Then DMX cable to the first projector, then I merely use the out plug to go to the next projector, then go in a chain to all the rest with DMX cable? Or does this device only control 2 projectors? Is there a way to assign the channels on the projectors using the dip switches on the projectors? I hope I still have manuals! After I figure this part out, then I'll get into the ILDA part.

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    I don't know if you should buy that thing on ebay. It looks rather shady and a bit high priced for what it is. Also I can't find it in the list of supported interfaces for Freestyler... But it is what you are looking for. It goes indeed as you have described: you take a DMX cable (3 pin XLR connector, like a regular microphone cable) from the interfaces output to the lasers input, and then another from the lasers output to the other lasers input, a 'daisy chain'.

    Don't invest too much in DMX control if the only thing you want to control are lasers. ILDA is much better. With DMX you can only access the preprogrammed patterns from the manufacturers and whatever effects they have programmed. You can't create your own patterns or shows. With ILDA you can create your own patterns and effects and animations and text etc.

    DMX works like this: in the software or DMX desk you assign a value between 0 and 255 (8 bits) to a channel going from 1 to 512. Each channel corresponds to a function of the fixture you're working with. For example a RGB LED spot could have 4 channels: one for red, green, blue and a master dimmer channel. If you assign the start address of this spot to be 1, then channel 1 represents red, 2 represents green etc. If you set the start address to 2, then channel 2 represents red, 3 represents green etc. So in your software you need to tell the program what each channel does. Of course for laser projectors things start to get complicated because such a projector easily has 10 channels each with a different function. Not a problem with decent software of course, and you have 512 channels so there's always room for yet another new toy ;-)

    Using the DIP switches is a bit odd to get used to if you're not used to counting in a different base than 10 like 99 % of the world, but once you get the hang of it it's rather easy.
    Normally there are about 10 DIP switches. The first one corresponds to the value 1. The next one always has the value double of the previous one, so the second DIP switch has value 2. The next doesn't have value 3, but 4! And so on, the next value is 8, and then 16, 32, 64, 128 and 256. If you want to have a start address between one of those numbers you need to count: start address 3 is the first and second DIP switch, as their values added together is 3. Start address 19 is the fifth (16), second (2) and first (1) as 16+2+1 = 19.
    This is called the binary system, or as mathematicians call it, a numeral system with base 2.

    There are some guys on Youtube that are better at explaining this than me with some text :P

    ILDA works different: you have only 24 channels and each channel has its own function such as x, y, red, green, blue, intensity, shutter, etc. It is not a digital signal, but an analog signal: it varies continuously between 0 and 5 V, instead of binary digits such as with DMX. The big upside is that you have much more control over your projector: you can create your own patterns and the output will be much better. The downside is that each projector needs its own DAC, you can't daisy chain them. There are some tools out there that can split the ILDA signal cable but then each projector would project the same and most people don't want this, but it's up to you really.

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    Thanks for all the info colouredmirrorball! I only have.. or will have 1 ILDA interfaced projector when the REKE500 arrives. So splitting that won't be a problem. I'm just wondering about getting the signal to it ILDA and DMX at the same time to the other projectors using one sequencer or controller. I think I will want to have pre-programmed shows so that I can go on about my business at home while the show is on remote control out in the yard. I'm installing freestyler as I type this to see if I can familiarize myself with how things work. I'll get to timeline stuff later. One step at a time. Can you recommend an inexpensive DAC/interface that sends both DMX and ILDA at the same time or is that even possible? On the Reke 500 there are many animations already installed in the system. Can more be written to it's internal memory so that the ILDA doesn't have to be connected while running, or are those set in stone? You might not be familiar with that projector, but thought I'd ask. I've also seen some wireless DMX transmitters and receivers. Any opinion on those?
    Last edited by forte88; 02-08-2012 at 18:38.

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    It depends on the projector really. Some projectors have a SD card slot where you can put ILDA files on and then the projector will be able to play those files without a DAC.
    I found this for you: http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...tor-66318.html
    It appears that there is no SD card slot so you do need ILDA or DMX for controlling the laser, but there is a Freestyler fixture in that page, ledmuseum.candlepower.us/34/reke50-1.zip
    Unzip in the fixture folder of Freestyler and you should find it in Freestyler setup -> Add/remove fixtures -> look for Reke in the manufacturers list -> select the projector -> click on the arrow to add the fixture. That should save you some time programming all the effects. But you can't add your own effects by this.

    The Easylase with DMX option has ILDA and DMX output but it is maybe rather expensive... and it doesn't come with software. I'm not aware of other DACs with DMX functions other than the QM2000 and such.
    Both LSX and Spaghetti suck at real DMX control though. LSX just isn't aimed at DMX and Spaghetti has a DMX function that was only recently added to the program and you can't even create your own fixtures yet. But I think Spaghetti would be a better option for DMX, as I'm sure it will improve over time.

    I don't think that going with Easylase+Spaghetti is the best solution however, but I'm unaware of other options...

    Oh and wireless transmitters tend to be unstable. It doesn't sound cheap too...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by colouredmirrorball View Post
    It depends on the projector really. Some projectors have a SD card slot where you can put ILDA files on and then the projector will be able to play those files without a DAC.
    I found this for you: http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...tor-66318.html
    It appears that there is no SD card slot so you do need ILDA or DMX for controlling the laser, but there is a Freestyler fixture in that page, ledmuseum.candlepower.us/34/reke50-1.zip
    Unzip in the fixture folder of Freestyler and you should find it in Freestyler setup -> Add/remove fixtures -> look for Reke in the manufacturers list -> select the projector -> click on the arrow to add the fixture. That should save you some time programming all the effects. But you can't add your own effects by this.

    The Easylase with DMX option has ILDA and DMX output but it is maybe rather expensive... and it doesn't come with software. I'm not aware of other DACs with DMX functions other than the QM2000 and such.
    Both LSX and Spaghetti suck at real DMX control though. LSX just isn't aimed at DMX and Spaghetti has a DMX function that was only recently added to the program and you can't even create your own fixtures yet. But I think Spaghetti would be a better option for DMX, as I'm sure it will improve over time.

    I don't think that going with Easylase+Spaghetti is the best solution however, but I'm unaware of other options...

    Oh and wireless transmitters tend to be unstable. It doesn't sound cheap too...

    I was the first one to review the Reke500RGB, I was also the first one (and only as far as I know) one to write a DMX guide and Freestyler fixture for it.

    I got a GUS USB to DMX controller which uses the open DMX standard.. It cost about $60...

    I also have had a soundcard DAC and Spaghetti and since switched to a FB3 with Pangolins Quickshow (which does not support DMX btw)

    If you have any questions about this unit specifically I should be able to answer them.

    http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...pus-65851.html This is my original review which includes internal pictures of the unit as well as several files including a text file explaining how DMX works with the unit.

    It also has videos of what it can do and will provide you with lots more info about laser projection and the unit itself.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by forte88 View Post
    Thanks for all the info colouredmirrorball! I only have.. or will have 1 ILDA interfaced projector when the REKE500 arrives. So splitting that won't be a problem. I'm just wondering about getting the signal to it ILDA and DMX at the same time to the other projectors using one sequencer or controller. I think I will want to have pre-programmed shows so that I can go on about my business at home while the show is on remote control out in the yard. I'm installing freestyler as I type this to see if I can familiarize myself with how things work. I'll get to timeline stuff later. One step at a time. Can you recommend an inexpensive DAC/interface that sends both DMX and ILDA at the same time or is that even possible? On the Reke 500 there are many animations already installed in the system. Can more be written to it's internal memory so that the ILDA doesn't have to be connected while running, or are those set in stone? You might not be familiar with that projector, but thought I'd ask. I've also seen some wireless DMX transmitters and receivers. Any opinion on those?
    I think you would be best with separate ILDA and DMX software and controllers. You will find packages have their strong and weak points for each technology.
    Trying to find 1 perfect program will be near impossible without spending thousands.

    Freestyler is almost impossible to use without a DMX fixture attached to it... It's not very intuitive until you see what the output actually is.

    The Reke pre built animations are useless (walking cat, year numbers, etc), however the abstracts graphics are where it's at and plentiful.
    You can not add more animations to the Reke, but with an ILDA controller you can send any image to the system you want to be projected.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyfromhe View Post
    I think you would be best with separate ILDA and DMX software and controllers. You will find packages have their strong and weak points for each technology.
    Trying to find 1 perfect program will be near impossible without spending thousands.

    Freestyler is almost impossible to use without a DMX fixture attached to it... It's not very intuitive until you see what the output actually is.

    The Reke pre built animations are useless (walking cat, year numbers, etc), however the abstracts graphics are where it's at and plentiful.
    You can not add more animations to the Reke, but with an ILDA controller you can send any image to the system you want to be projected.
    The problem I see with that is that I want to have the computer in the house and the projector will be maybe 50 ft from the computer outside during the halloween, christmas, or any other time I want to have a display showing on the house. I saw some SD Card ILDA player modules out there. That could keep me from having the ILDA DAC from the computer hooked up, but will DMX control the animations coming from the SD ILDA player so that I can have the animations change on cue while playing a timeline through the DMX?

    Great Review from Guyfromhe. Lots of good information there that i'm sure will come in handy. Guess I got lucky with the Reke500. Found it yesterday for $210.00 U.S.. Same store has it today for $303.00
    Last edited by forte88; 02-09-2012 at 11:32.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by forte88 View Post
    The problem I see with that is that I want to have the computer in the house and the projector will be maybe 50 ft from the computer outside during the halloween, christmas, or any other time I want to have a display showing on the house. I saw some SD Card ILDA player modules out there. That could keep me from having the ILDA DAC from the computer hooked up, but will DMX control the animations coming from the SD ILDA player so that I can have the animations change on cue while playing a timeline through the DMX?
    Some guy on the other forum said he used a 100' DB-25 cable he got on Amazon from his DAC to his projector and it worked fine... You might want to go that route... I don't think those SD players are DMX controllable... I have never really looked into them as they are quite expensive and have very little practical application.

    If the SD card ILDA adapter has a DMX port on it you can probably control it through DMX... You won't be able to control it via the projectors DMX if that's what your asking.

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