confused about software/DAC requirements of laser projectors

[Pangolin]

OK Doc, thanks.

I think he was fairly new when this thread got started. Now I see he's accumulated quite a number of posts. That would be unusual for a plant indeed...

Still waiting on some kind of contact, either by PM or email...

Bill

[The_Doctor]

No worries. I think this will likely heal well, just helping that along...

[Galvonaut]

I agree with LaserLips that both LSX and Quickshow may make a great combination.

Thanks for your PM Bill. It was the first I've had from you, so maybe there was a problem with the forum when you messaged me before?

I can assure you that I am not a plant. I'm simply recounting a customer experience having purchased Quickshow and an FB3 from ebay (most people shop for the cheapest seller of a product nowadays).

I have creative plans for my laser work and having access to the show portal may have given me an idea of what others are doing with QS and what the software is capable of. Without this access I was unable to make a judgement and felt that there was little support or community within the Pangolin world (that I had access to).
Then I saw what Swamidog and CMB were doing with LSX. CMB has created tutorials and is sharing them freely. Swamidog regularly posts videos of amazing creations (eye-melty abstracts) and he occasionally lets slip how some of them are done
I have only seen 1 abstract created with QS posted on this forum (last week I think) and have been keen to see some user-created content.

Although LSX is a one-man-band and there can be a delay in customer service, for me, I need to be creative and have access to a friendly community who will guide me through the learning curve that LSX is no-doubt going to offer me. I've seen and keep revisiting Swamidogs content and can see how powerful the software is when in a creative person's hands.

I hope this explains where I am coming from as I really don't want to come across as a troll/plant?

Keith

ps I sign off 95% of my posts with my real name

[Pangolin]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the response and also for the email that I just received and responded to.

Yes, you were the victim of what we would call an unsavory ebay seller, who states "all sales are final" and does not want to offer any support what so ever once he's gotten his money. We try to educate potential clients upfront, that this kind of seller can be problematic, and in the latest version of our demo software (soon to be released), we make this even more obvious. As I indicated in my email, I'll be happy to turn on your Pangolin Shows Portal account now that I know you're a real person, and not someone acting on behalf of this eBay seller, trying to flout our dealer policies.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding support options, Pangolin is huge when compared to most other software companies serving this industry. We offer our own Pangolin LaserChat Forum and if you check that out, you'll find that there are quite lively discussions going on there. In addition to that, I've also mentioned nearly 24 hour access from three separate offices around the world, plus the ability to reach us face-to-face on Skype, and a variety of instant messaging services.

We're currently earning clients at a rate of around 1,000 per month these days, and so what this means is a) if the software has a problem there are lots of people screaming in our ear to get it solved (so problems get solved quickly), and; b) anywhere you go in the world, there are other Pangolin clients who are generally very helpful and can provide advice, trade show-ware, equipment, etc. Regarding video tutorials, if you check out our YouTube channel at www.YouTube.com/PangolinShows, you'll find a huge array of tutorial videos -- most recently tutorials in separate spoken languages, as well as demonstrations from some of our clients. As far as we're able to tell, there's certainly no shortage of support available practically, anywhere you turn!

Regarding what you wrote about LSX, I certainly agree that Swami has done impressive abstract work. What I haven't seen (admittedly haven't looked for it either) is a perponderance of successful users. Nearest I can tell, Swami and the one other guy (sorry, I'm terrible with names) who is also successful at making abstract are both computer programmers and, moreover they both appear to be unmarried computer programmers at that. I might be wrong, but that's my impression. My point is -- sure, it is clear that someone with a highly analytical mind and lots of time on his hands can eventually turn out impressive work. But what about "the rest of us"?

Even speaking for myself, I've written literally hundreds of thousands of lines of software code. But frankly when it comes time to make a laser show, I want the quickest path to success. Putting this into words, I want to get my thoughts "through the machine and onto the screen", and I'd rather not do computer programming to accomplish this.

Putting this into context with my implied question -- I *know for an absolute fact* that when clients have our software, they *will* be successful with it! I say this based on an observation of thousands of clients who, over the years, make posts on our Facebook, contacting us by email, as well as people posting on our forum etc. Not only the top laser professionals, many of whom can be seen on the "Powered by Pangolin" section of our web site, but also beginners who continually give testimonials as to how QuickShow and a store-bought laser changed their lives!

Bottom line -- I know our software works, and that even unsophisticated, non-computer-programming clients will be successful with it, and be successful quickly.

What I don't know is you, Kieth. I'd certainly be interested in learning more about you as an individual and hearing about your experiences with LSX, particularly if you're not a computer programmer or if you're someone who doesn't have a lot of patience or time on their hands.

Best regards,

William Benner

[oleger]

Hi Keith,
Regarding what you wrote about LSX, I certainly agree that Swami has done impressive abstract work. What I haven't seen (admittedly haven't looked for it either) is a perponderance of successful users. Nearest I can tell, Swami and the one other guy (sorry, I'm terrible with names) who is also successful at making abstract are both computer programmers and, moreover they both appear to be unmarried computer programmers at that. I might be wrong, but that's my impression. My point is -- sure, it is clear that someone with a highly analytical mind and lots of time on his hands can eventually turn out impressive work. But what about "the rest of us"?

I use LSX with Riya DAC for the production of graphic show. I also use drlava's ild sos to convert graphics from 3d max.

For example:

[Galvonaut]

Thanks for the answers.

Not to be disrespectful, but why does everyone here like to go off-topic so much?

Oh, aren't we in the lounge?

[colouredmirrorball]

Regarding what you wrote about LSX, I certainly agree that Swami has done impressive abstract work. What I haven't seen (admittedly haven't looked for it either) is a perponderance of successful users. Nearest I can tell, Swami and the one other guy (sorry, I'm terrible with names) who is also successful at making abstract are both computer programmers and, moreover they both appear to be unmarried computer programmers at that. I might be wrong, but that's my impression. My point is -- sure, it is clear that someone with a highly analytical mind and lots of time on his hands can eventually turn out impressive work. But what about "the rest of us"?

I hope it's not me you're referring to as I'm a physics student (so obviously unmarried), not a programmer!

In addition, you certainly don't need to be a programmer to use LSX, but frankly, it helps. It's up to the user how far he wants to go.
Actually it's the other way round: because of LSX and the things I learnt delving into the possibilities it offers, I'm now getting back to Java to try to create an application that sends Leap Motion data via OSC to other programs.

[The_Doctor]

Oh, aren't we in the lounge?

Nope. Weird though, I got that confused too. Steve-o's Kinda Funny thread, with the poll. I've confused this with that one at least twice now. Similar subjects came up in both.

Edit: In a desperate bid to get to topic, I think that while a good program does nto require coding from the user to make things happen, good scripting can help a great deal. Lua, Ruby, etc, have often really strengthened an otherwise easy tool and allowed people to customise it and its output highly without having to buy a different firm's program. As it happens, such extended tooling is a very good way to let people find out if they want to code or not.

[Pangolin]

Hi ColouredMirrorBall: Yes, you're the other one

But I was speaking about this same overall topic with Adam Burns (Buffo), although I'm not sure he frequents PL much. (I certainly don't get to PL much so I'm not sure how much Adam is involved.) If Adam has time, I think it would be very interesting to get his perspective on this topic, because Adam also has LSX and Adam is very well connected with the PL community.

It is clear that Swami, Colored Mirror Ball and others, here and there, are being successful and having fun with LSX. That is not a question. But to me the biggest question is one of "scale". If 100 people were to get both software packages, how many out of the 100 will be successful, and how quickly? To me that's a huge question! During the learning curve, certain people are going to get discouraged and stop right there. The vast majority of people walking the streets are not computer programmers, math majors or physics professors. What about ordinary human beings? Even setting abstracts aside, it seems like their quick satisfaction should count for something...

[Galvonaut]

Absolutely Bill. Had I built my laser then got LSX I would have been screwed! Quickshow was mega-simple straight out of the box and still highly capable.

I am useless at programming (the last program I wrote was in BBC Basic) and I've modified some arduino sketches, that's as far as I've gone. Swami AFAIK, does not use expressions very often and even if he did, it's looks less like programming and more mathematics/algebraic (neither of which I am very good at).

The one thing I do have is time (298 posts on PL since August) so I'm happy to learn this. I'm also learning Quickshow and the UKLEM was invaluable for this.

I've been throwing beams around for a couple of years but what I want to do is different. I know how capable QS is for this and saw Beyond in action at the LEM. I've watched as many videos of LSX, QS and Beyond as I can. I have been putting on successful shows with QS but I don't think it will work for what I want to do next - well it will run the shows well but possibly not create the content I'm after. I am interested in Beyond as I have heard that it has the ability to mix video and lasers.

I'm certainly patient and passionate enough to learn to use LSX and honestly can't wait to get my teeth into it (my copy is at a post office in South-west France)!

Keith