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Thread: Eyemagix - Magic Box

  1. #21
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    swamidog is online now Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
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    such a device would be very handy for recording the output of analog consoles like dz's z5 and converting it to ilda frames for timeline sequencing.
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    These days, the requirement to "capture" something, thus, would lie mostly on behalf of those wanting to abscond with the content of others. (If I understand Kecked correctly, that's what was meant by "theft".)
    I have no doubt that there are folks out there like this however, not everyone wanting to "capture" output does so for nefarious reasons. There are a growing number of folks that appreciate the "bad old days" of this industry! Lets not forget, the past 2 years at SELEM the center piece running the shows in the auditorium were 20 year old G-120's!

  3. #23
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    Interesting, Bill your not my age and digitising was when artists created new artwork. The original version of pangolin was based around the Commodore 64.
    I remember when ripping of the laser media graphics was fine with you guys.
    I don't agree with anyone ripping of tech, and despite the age it doesn't give anyone a licence to demean or shun the work Tom has put into his scanners.
    Thanks
    Clive

  4. #24
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    Clive? Is this really you or has someone hacked your account or just pretending to be you? I don't remember you ever being so rude (or wrong) in the past. But in this case you're wrong on all accounts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Electronics Ltd View Post
    The original version of pangolin was based around the Commodore 64.
    Hehe, WRONG! As many people know, the "original version of Pangolin" (which is called Laser Show Designer 1000) was based on Amiga, not Commodore 64. We still offer that software as a free download on our web site. And the download also includes all of the frames we included with the package.

    Perhaps you're confusing us with another guy, who indeed had a Commodore 64 package, and indeed did include graphics from Laser Media. I saw this with my own eyes at ILDA in 1991 in Longboat Key, Florida. I forget the guy's name though. Paul something maybe? He caused a lot of problems and fortunately is no longer involved with Lasers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Electronics Ltd View Post
    I remember when ripping of the laser media graphics was fine with you guys.
    I guess you mean "ripping OFF" (not of), but this also makes me wonder if you're really Clive... But again, your assertion would be WRONG!!

    We were one of the strong proponents of protecting the content of all companies, especially Laser Media. There were companies who came to us with content from Laser Media, or asked us to import the ROM codes from Laser Media and we always refused. Also, whenever we saw people abusing Laser Media content in the marketplace, we always let Segi and Ron Goldstein know about it. Toward the end, I'd say we were stronger at protecting Laser Media's artwork than even they were themselves.

    But since you seem to say "fine with you guys", what evidence can you bring forth to support your assertions?

    The greater Pangolin library (which we freely distribute with LD2000) has more than 300,000 laser frames. Can you point to even so much as a single laser frame belonging to Laser Media?

    And before you say "the Laser Media test pattern", I will point out that actually, in that case, I only used Laser Media as a guide. I personally created that test pattern through digitizing when I first got started with laser as a hobby using Z-80-based boards that I wire wrapped by hand! So the "Laser Media Test Pattern" (in quotes for a reason) that we include is only a test pattern in the shape of theirs -- not derived digitally from them or obtained in any other direct fashion.

    Since you brought up Tom:

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Electronics Ltd View Post
    I don't agree with anyone ripping of tech
    Then maybe you should ask Tom where he got the idea for his latest scanners. (Hint: The Cambridge model 6800 and US Patent: 5,424,632.) As just one example, take a close look at the inside diameter of the coil. Complete coincidence that it's the same as the 6800? Clive (or whoever you are) you're barking up the wrong tree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Electronics Ltd View Post
    to demean or shun the work Tom has put into his scanners.
    For the record I am not "demean" or "shun" work. In fact I applaud the fact that Tom has a few novel aspects to his scanners. They are not a 100% rip-off of the Cambridge design (just a copy in some respects -- same respects as Chinese in fact...) There are a few novel aspects.

    What I do "demean" is outlandish and exaggerated advertising claims that a product can do something that the laws of Physics and geometry say that it can not. The Clive I knew also would be offended if UK-based competitors made claims that their laser projector, their software, or any other product would do something it would not...

    Bill
    Last edited by Pangolin; 05-22-2014 at 07:03.

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    Hang on here Bill, Clive does have a point,I know for a fact that Clive has beaten Pangolin to the post on various things that have been 'done first at Pangolin' You have to remember that some of us on this forum have been exciting Ions for decades and have been around a long time.
    It's not ethical really for you as the main software supplier to be seen as poo pooing everything that other suppliers or manufacturers come up with. It comes across really bullish and a bit 'up yourself '
    I use Pangolin and have done for a long time (as most of us do) But you didn't invent or solely develop this industry. So please stop taking the megalomaniac pills for a bit.
    :-)
    lighting the way since 89

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClearBlu View Post
    Hang on here Bill, Clive does have a point
    A point about what? His message has four sentences, at least two of which can be easily proven false (that our system was Commodore 64, and that we promoted or participated in "ripping of" Laser Media).

    His next sentence is that he says that he doesn't agree with "ripping of" tech, and yet in another post I show how anybody on this forum or elsewhere can see that he has ripped off the Microsoft license agreement and frames originally created by Patrick, me, Steve Heminover and probably L. Michael Roberts!

    I have generally had a few good exchanged with Clive, and so I was surprised by his particular post above.

    Clive may very well have some good points, and may very well have some innovations too. That is not a question. But his posting above is certainly not representative of his best work!



    Quote Originally Posted by ClearBlu View Post
    I know for a fact that Clive has beaten Pangolin to the post on various things that have been 'done first at Pangolin'
    I am reminded that this thread is already off topic, and so this would not be the place to debate this. However -- my standard for what comes out of my mouth and Pangolin's advertising is FACT. If it is true that I have said something that is not factual, or there is something non-factual in Pangolin's advertising, I will be happy to retract it, and Swami (and others paying attention) can testify to that.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClearBlu View Post
    It's not ethical really for you as the main software supplier to be seen as poo pooing everything that other suppliers or manufacturers come up with.
    I think you might be barking up the wrong tree, or not paying particularly close attention. I do not make it a habit of "poo pooing everything" and in fact, I *DO* make it a habit to help people. You have 76 posts and I have nearly 1500. My point is -- I've been involved with PL for a long time. There are plenty of folks here who will tell you that I have directly given them schematics to build their own products, directly helped with software code, directly given of my time and such. And helped guide developments of others.

    But if you're going to bring "ethics" into this -- what I hope everyone would agree is not ethical is for any manufacturer to greatly exaggerate the capabilities of their product.

    Those who are involved with PL for a long time will remember the MANY people who purchased LaserWorld projectors whose spec power was routinely exaggerated. There were many angry folks and outraged customers here on PL -- and rightly so. The result of all of the feedback and negative PR -- here on PL and elsewhere -- is that LaserWorld has changed their behavior. Now their products are really among the others or even leading in quality, and beam power specs are made more clear.

    You won't find me poo-pooing the work of others unless they are criticizing what we have done, or unless they are exaggerating or flat-out lying in some way. And my public responses are to try to enforce a degree of negative feedback -- negative feedback that has been shown to produce positive outcomes, as illustrated by my LaserWorld example above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClearBlu View Post
    But you didn't invent or solely develop this industry.
    You're right about that, and I never said that I did! In my examples above (Cambridge model 6800 and US Patent: 5,424,632) I am giving credit to Cambridge and Jean Montagu, not to myself. And in my other post related to Clive, I gave credit to Steve Heminover. Basically -- like FACT -- my standard is to give credit where credit is DUE. When someone develops something, they deserve credit. In the case of EMS, I have repeatedly (even in my published reports) given EMS credit for not flat-out copying the Cambridge model 6800 design, as many Chinese companies have. EMS uses a different position sensor, different bearing preload, and a few other things. Sure, these are different.

    And I have said it in other posts. Had EMS said "hey, we have a new scanner that we think is pretty neat, check it out", then that would have been that, and you'd have never heard a peep out of me. But when EMS claims to have invented the "The fastest, most efficient scanning system on planet earth" and makes outlandish claims that violate the laws of physics and geometry, actually who is it who is "taking the megalomaniac pills"?

    Bill

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    Billy…give it a break dude, obviously you don’t know when to be embarrassed. So much narcissism and self-indulgence qualifies for the Guinness book of world records. You must have 2 inch thick calluses on your hands and your back must have the shape of the hunchback of Notre dame from endlessly patting your own back. You poor sod, your only fulfillment in life appears to consist of striving for attention and acknowledgment from your peers. So much lack of self-worth that you have to go thru life waving your hands in the air yelling out “Hey everybody, here I am, look what I did! „ and you never fail to mention your patents and merit badges in any thread, just plain pitiful.

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    Hey Bill, long time etc. I'd just like to say, "You're on top of the game. You don't have to defend yourself. When people try to build themselves up by trying to take you down your best defense is to laugh at them. In fact go ahead and laugh all the way to the bank. They're not attacking you for being wrong. They're attacking you for winning."
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

  9. #29
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    Bill, your missing the point here. You could of e-mailed Tom (and anyone else who brings a product out) to question validity of claims instead of using this forum publicly. It's not the first time you've done this and in some people's eyes it does come across wrong.
    As for my post count that's irrelevant really as when I need help I ask certain people on here privately and to be honest have had my life saved (or pointed in the right direction) by members,they know who they are and I don't feel the need to make it public. Like I've said I have no problem with Pangolin or the input you always provide, it's just you do seem to pick holes with competitors. I know your passionate about the industry and a lot of innovative ideas do come from you or the team but you do jump on things publicly and whether you understand it or not it comes across wrong.
    As for Clive and Laserelectronics, the whole industry in Europe would have been a hell of a lot different without them,in the earlier days they designed whole shows for artists that companies today can only dream of working with.
    Like I said professional courtesy and ethics always win people over
    lighting the way since 89

  10. #30
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    At the advice of SolarFire and Laserists, I'll tone it down a bit. But I do want to respond to one point.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClearBlu View Post
    You could of e-mailed Tom (and anyone else who brings a product out) to question validity of claims instead of using this forum publicly.
    Oh but I *DID* many times! This is discussed in other forum posts. This didn't work, and my emails were met with responses like "how dare you question me" (and I'm not kidding).

    By trying to defend THE ART, it could very well be that people sitting home and reading these forum posts think I am patting myself on the back. All I am trying to do is point out when people have grossly exaggerated.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClearBlu View Post
    As for Clive and Laserelectronics, the whole industry in Europe would have been a hell of a lot different without them,in the earlier days they designed whole shows for artists that companies today can only dream of working with.
    Sure, and I agree. No question about it. I was very surprised by Clive's short, rude, and incorrect posting, but would never say that Clive isn't a smart guy, hasn't done innovative things, etc. Really that's why the posting surprised me so much. I expect this kind of misinformation from a young, arrogant kid who doesn't know any better, but not from Clive.

    Bill

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