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Thread: Re: Laserium Choreographics System and Show tapes

  1. #1
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    Default Re: Laserium Choreographics System and Show tapes

    I am posting this to clear up one thing, I have legally established my ownership of what I have.
    I'm in charge of what I own, and I own what I have.
    My (in hand) 1995 (expired) contract has no perpetuity clause, and it was not incumbent on me to maintain it.
    And the (expired) Contract only states Laserium Has right of first Refusal.
    As a courtesy, I have given John at Laserium just that, The First refusal, and they have declined.
    This is especially directed to the Site Admin, who ( Rightfully) took my first ad down.
    I don't want anyone to think I'm doing anything that is not above board.
    My standing offer, that I'm about to accept, is $4000 from a West Coast fellow that wants this historic Laser system for a conversation piece running a Laser Show in his Man-Cave.
    Ivan told me they programmed effects for 'Back to The Future' with my NuBus card before they sold it to me.. And.. he told me this when He & I were ON the 'Back to the Future Ride' together in 93 at Universal Studios in Orlando!! LoL

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  2. #2
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    Now, the thing to look for next is the very same person that gave first refusal, to post Bluster here in an effort to scare away my buyer. (my buyer pointed this out ! )

  3. #3
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    Lightbulb

    *sigh*

    Well, I thought I was doing the 'nobler' thing to try and keep this all in PM, but I guess that is blown, now..

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    Now, the thing to look for next is the very same person that gave first refusal, to post Bluster here in an effort to scare away my buyer. (my buyer pointed this out ! )
    a) no 'bluster', just need the Facts..

    b) no desire to 'scare away your buyer', as I've already stated, we don't Need / want the Hardware, per-se, that was just a 'vehicle' to use as a method to preserve / protect the Sale of Our IP and Show Content, since, otherwise, it would be rather foul to be having to 'buy back' our Own shows, if there's truly No such permission.. However..

    c) If this is true..

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    ...Contract only states Laserium Has right of first Refusal.
    ..and there Truly Is nothing in there stating that the Show Content - Not talking / concerned about Hardware, here - may-not be Re-sold, then I couldn't possibly 'scare away your buyer'.. What would they be 'scared' Of? If you're so sure of this, then nothing I could say or do, could achieve such a thing. If you've Got the Rights, then you've Got the Rights. If you Don't, however, that's a different Story / course of Action. And That is all I need to get to the bottom of.

    d) ..But, however yet again - If This is true...

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    ...My (in hand) 1995 (expired) contract has no perpetuity clause, and it was not incumbent on me to maintain it.
    ..and the "Contract" / whatever 'Agreement' and/or Rights conferred upon you, within.. are, in-fact, *Expired*, and, there Is-No 'perpetuity clause', well.. That would (unless I can Read something otherwise..) generally mean there is, in-fact, No 'automatic / ongoing extension' of said-Rights / there IS an 'end' to them - which we are well-Past - so.. Again, unless I can Read / understand Exactly what Rights were conferred (also, see below..) and, in what 'confines' (Term-limit / any specific limitations on Show Content, vs Hardware, any Geographic limitations, etc, etc..) they exist, well.. Sorry, but I cannot justify $4K - buying our Own IP - in order to protect it's further-propagation...

    e) Even IF you still-do have such-Rights (to Sell Our IP / Show Content, as you wish, for however-long..) you Still Cannot - legally - SELL IT WITH THE MUSIC (unless you - Also - have the clear Rights to do so, which would have Only come from the Artists / Publishers / Record Co.s - NOT something we could even 'grant'..) And if you think that's just 'bluster' or some 'scare tactic', well... Friendly tip: Look that up before you conclude your Sale, within this - very Public / searchable - forum.. But, by way of a 'quick reference', this, above, is Why, 'Pangolin', for example, does not ship their show-content - with the Music - they tell you: 'Search for / Buy Song XYZ, by Artist XYZ and Sync / Edit it, in [this] manner with the show-content..' So, sorry, but... Not 'bluster'..

    I'll have to try and find our 'copy' of this "Contract", but.. it would have been much easier (..and Quieter..) to simply work together on this, which.. in my world, shouldn't have to start with us forking over $$ for our Own Show Content, which - I still currently don't believe (..and I may be wrong on this / might be some 'crazy-exception' made..) - is something that was Ever done..

    ..I mean, even those Planetariums that BOUGHT Whole Systems, AFAIK / in All such paperwork Ive ever seen (which is a Lot..) they *Leased* - not Owned, outright - the Show Content (..and Music-rights was 'primarily Why'..) and even if they Did, somehow 'Own' the Shows, any Sales / License Agreement certainly would not provide for the PLA to have 'Resale rights' (LII would Never do such a thing, as One PLA could just up and Sell it's content to some Other PLA that had a Laserium-system, and thus, 'cut out' LII from that other-Lease revenue! That would make Zero sense for them to allow..) so.. Perhaps one of the other 'LII Elders', also here in PL, might weigh in?..

    I will stand corrected... or I will stand my ground...
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  4. #4
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    The Contract is 1995. That should tell you which box to look in .. You should absolutely have a copy.
    My excellent lawyer tells me if you do not have a copy, it is not up to me to provide you one that you would only try to use against me. I hope you understand.
    I think though, as a compromise, I'm going to try to sell it for far less money to an american Laserist whose has impressed me with a desire to protect and cherish and enjoy This system & Artwork, and to Honor Ivan Dryer.
    Not mentioning any names .
    Good luck John.
    I hope Laserium is a Huge success going Forward.
    If you decide you would like to approach Dayton's 145 seat Digistar Planetarium, let me know and I WILL help you with that, even though we disagreed here.
    J.M.

  5. #5
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    ...if you do not have a copy, it is not up to me to provide you one that you would only try to use against me. I hope you understand.
    Actually, I'm still a bit perplexed: if you've actually got something So 'Iron Clad', that you're willing to risk issues with the Music rights-issue I mentioned (..That's (mostly..) why they Leased, never Sold.. the 'RIAA' is Not exactly known for its' sense of humor, so.. jus' sayin..) then How could I possibly 'use it against you'? If it 'shuts me down', well.. I would think you'd Want me to read it, nice and in my face-like.. Not opposed to searching thru dozens of (still piled-up..) boxes, but.. I'm not an idiot - if it's Clear, then I'm certainly not going to waste time / money on an Atty who will simply tell me 'yeah, he's Got the Rights... that'll be Cha-ching, please', so...

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    I think though ...I'm going to try to sell it for far less money to an american Laserist whose has impressed me with a desire to protect and cherish and enjoy This system & Artwork, and to Honor Ivan Dryer.
    Hmm, soooo.. What about the 'american Laserist ..with a desire to protect and cherish and enjoy This system & Artwork, and to Honor Ivan Dryer'.. that Already offered you fairly-more $$ (than you Originally posted the sale price for..) and-whom, exclusively adds the 'side benefit' of avoiding Any potential Music-Rights issues, namely the guy that Owns the IP and ® (Me..) Perhaps give that some thinks, Chief..

    Ttyl..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  6. #6
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    okay.. Sorry... Nobody got my sarcasm.
    Last edited by CHOREOGRAPHICS; 08-20-2017 at 04:12.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Of course there's music on a bunch of old show tapes. If there's no music on the tapes that's even worse. The music in most Laserium shows was edited. Recreating the edited soundtrack would be a stone plated bitch. And working with old tapes just sucks !period! I know a little about which I speak. With Jon's complete support I brought back Laserium I, Lightyears, & The Beatles back To St. Louis in 2013/14. It was interesting, incredibly hard, and it consumed about two years of my life including every bit of my bandwidth. Still I gained a ton of insight about the reality of doing live planetarium laser shows in this decade, and I really enjoyed getting the Email below:


    "Keep making miracles, Brian, you're on a real roll! If I had had to guess which city, if any, would have resurrected Laserium...well, I guess it would have to have been the one you happen to be in!

    With admiration,

    Ivan"

    Finally - my advice to anyone who thinks buying two decade old automated show tapes is simply: caveat emptor.
    "There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun." Pablo Picasso

  8. #8
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    Default

    I was being Tongue in cheek.

  9. #9
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    Lightbulb ...methinks thou dost protest too much...

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    ..Nobody got my sarcasm.
    ..Again, not sure why such is necessary if this is all so cut and dry / such a slam dunk.. Still diggin thru boxen, but... What paperwork I Have found, thus far, is Not supportive of this / other past-claims (ie: http://photonlexicon.com/forums/show...153#post133153 ..."partner"?? I find no such evidence, so... Maybe that was just a 'figure of speech'? Doesn't seem like it was being 'portrayed' that way, so..

    ..I really do think it's best / fastest / in Your best-interests, really, to simply provide me a copy of this "Contract", so we can see what rights - if any - were indeed conferred, relative to Our IP / Show Content-resale, etc, and what 'Term' it all carried / any caveats / exceptional exceptions, etc, etc..

    ..and a PM email is more than fine, I certainly don't expect any of it to be posted in public... It's a shame enough this had to be 'dragged out on the mat' (vs PM..) as it is, but.. <shrug> Not my idea..

    Hope to hear from you soon, so we can get to the bottom of this / clear it up / move on..

    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOREOGRAPHICS View Post
    NuBus card
    I sent you an email not sure if you got it, if that other sale falls through I am very interested in the quadra with the nubus card, don't care about laserium show content that much but the hardware yes

    also if you have not already those old quadras MUST be recapped and have their PRAM batteries removed or replaced... the old PRAM batteries can leak and that's game over for those machines

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