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Thread: Laserworld

  1. #31
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    Does nobody of you know that a red wide stripe lasermodul with 6mm Beam Diameter never fit on a Scannermirror?
    Hey dumb ass, a square beam has nothing to do with a loss of almost 3 watts.

    Try more lame ass bashing of people who obviously know more than you.

  2. #32
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    quote:
    If you make measurements as a company against a other company and you make this public you have to take a callibrated brand power meter from coherent for example....
    end quote:

    There is a picture floating around here with a Scientech showing one of your lasers very, very, low compared to spec.

    I own a Coherent Fieldmaster and a Coherent Powerpen and a Coherent 210. The Fieldmaster and Powerpen are NIST traceable. The 210 matches the other two within 2% at 514, 488, 647 and 532.

    This is as good as the German company that showed up at ILDA one year advertising 248Kpps scan systems ie , 12K(x) x 12K(Y) x 12K R x12K G x12K B In the US this is known as Marketing Speak , or Specsmanship.

    I love Peter's rambling about Fresnel loss when a AR coated piece of glass is 20$ Quantity 1 and much less in bulk. Since its a worse case loss for lead glass at 4% per surface, 8% total, for near zero incidences. That still doesn't account for the huge error.
    Since dielectric coated glass mirror costs me less then 20$ a square inch, in small amounts, I wonder why these guys are still using over coated silver or plain silver losses as Peter's post implies.

    From these two guy's posts I wonder if either of them has the famed German Dip.Ing. degree or even their 3 year professional ET degree.

    If I sold a customer here in the US a system based on pre scanned power, claimed 1 watt of red, but only 25% made it to the scanners, the customer would be told he has 250 mW of red. My friend has a Hungarian system, and it too specifies delivered power post scanner. That is the way it is.
    If you sell it as shaft horsepower, say it is shaft horsepower.

    Cambridge solved the mirror angle red leakage problem 10-15 years ago.

    That is a great question?, since that system made it into the US, does it have a accession number? Was the variance issued pre delivery?
    Was it compliant?

    Next thing we'll hear is he specified the intracavity power.

    Hint, in the future, do not let Peter near a keyboard.

    Sounds like the customer might possibly have a rebranded, remarked, system, but still, the answers are excuses. And if the power levels were true, why mark them over with a pen? Are they afraid their customers can add?

    If I sold a system for 3500 to 5500 USD, the mirrors would be all dielectric, are they?

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 03-17-2009 at 12:01.

  3. #33
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    soforene is offline The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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    Call me cynical but when someone joins the forum today and their very first post is in defence of Laserworld crap, I'm inclined to believe they are in fact "stooges" of Laserworld sent here to try and bolster their appalling record of ripping off customers by drastically overstating the power of their lasers.

    But it could all be coincidence .................

    Let the facts speak for themselves eh chums.
    Much like they have been doing for quite a few months now.

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    Could someone please explain to me why a reputable laser company would put black marker over the power markings on their laser heads?

    It's a simple question and one that I feel ought to be answered.

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    This is strange. After reading that reply from LaserWorld, I'm reminded of all of those Nigerian scam emails I got from Craigslist over the last few months.

    It's intriguing to see someone try to convey false information to you when they don't quite grasp formal written English.

    Normally, I'd stay out of it and just observe, but fact of the matter is most of the people reading this thread probably know how to properly test and report on a laser projector's power. Laserworld is putting on a grotesque display of cognitive dissonance here and needs to be put in it's place for doing so.

    -Jonathan

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    I have been waiting ALL day to get home and do this...

    <<WARNING>> this will be long and i may say some bad words!!!

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "Hello, my name is Peter and I work at Laserworld AG."


    Hi Peter. My Name is Marc and i will be handing you your ass today. Please enjoy the ride!

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "there are a few commercial users in this forum who suffered a lot by our market presence and these have been the only people doing everything to harm our reputation, because one thing is for sure: every laser we sold is one which they haven't sold."


    If you are SERIOUSLY refering to me as one of the commercial users in this forum that have suffered by you selling lasers you are more naieve than i have previously thought. #1- Up until about 4-5 months ago, i REFERRED people to your company to purchase products!!! I would receive calls from people in the USA wanting to buy "cheap, ready to go laser systems." I dont sell "Cheap ready to go laser systems." YOU DO!! (well, did!). I DO NOT want those customers. Nor will I EVER want those customers. i am not saying they are not important. of course they are. but i build my projectors 1 by 1. to FDA/CDRH specs with product reports and variances. People that want "cheap and ready to go" laser projectors tend to not have the budget for one of my laser projectors. LaserWorld DOES NOT build their products to FDA regulations regardless of what your website and pretty little stickers say, your products are NO WHERES near compliant with FDA/CDRH regulations. i had customers that i refered to your company and spent money with YOUR company who originally called MY company wanting to spend money with MY company. I respectfully declined the offers and refered them to you. At that time, I heard GOOD things about LaserWorld and I had confidence in your products. i have turned Laser Shows over to other companies (those comanies on this forum especially) can vouch for that! I know my place in this industry. So to say that i feel threatened by competition is just LUDICROUS. i embrace competition. i look forward to competition. it makes MY COMPANY better. I RESPECT other companies that PROVE they deserve respect! You Laserworld, deserve NO RESPECT. you had a chance to come clean and make things right but you chose the 7 yr old attitude and blame it on EVERYONE else except the ones at fault. LASERWORLD!!!!

    Laserworld-ag wrote:
    "It is always quite interesting how measurements are done in forums like these, especially if it is about competitors products.
    I won't comment on these specific measurements."


    LOL- why not?? PLEASE comment on it! I think EVERYONE here would LOVE to hear the comment! After all, i think we ALL could learn ALOT from you. NOBODY here, knows how to take laser power measurements like the pros at LaserWorld!! (im being serious!). I mean come on...how excited and psyched would we ALL be if we could take a 340mW red laser and SOMEHOW or another make that 1.75 WATTS?? are you kidding me??? PLEASE....TEACH ME HOW TO DO THAT!!!!!

    Laserworld-ag wrote:
    "I have seen many of those, and they always follow the same routine"


    LOL- what routine is that? turn laser on....point laser at meter....read pretty little numbered lights on meter....?? is this the "routine" you speak of??

    Laserworld-ag wrote:
    "when we receive the lasers, as the diodes we get from our suppliers usually have a certain range in power.
    They not only meet the minimum specs, but usually are quite above."


    i agree with that 100%. NOBODY is doubting the quality of the lasers that you are SUPPOSED to use in your projectors! They are SUPPOSED to be CNI Lasers. I know CNI's make a great laser system. Their quality and service is superb! imagine that...im their COMPETITOR and i am STILL applauding their good business practices...what IS the problem here is #1- you not only advertise one thing and sell another, but you sell USED modules as NEW modules and still make the customer pay FULL PRICE! (pics to support). You advertise a 1.7 WATT red CNI laser in an RGB projector that has to STRUGGLE and SCREAM to hit 340mW. that isnt the CNI laser modules fault. it is YOUR fault for advertising a 300mW CNI laser as a 1.7 WATT CNI laser!!

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "When measuring the diodes not mounted into a projector, there is, in our opinion, only one practical way to do this. Put 5V at the signal input, and measure the power coming out."


    you REALLY should have read my first post. becasue you are making yourself look worse than i am sure you really are. i SPECIFICALLY SAID, GOTTALUVLASERS WROTE: "this RGB Laser system is rated as a ~3.5 WATT (Guaranteed balanced minimum output of 2.2 WATTS). This Laser STRUGGLED, and i mean STRUGGLED to hit about 600mW of White output. All lasers on. No modulation. 5 volts DIRECTLY input on each Module head. (NO software even in the loop!!!)" Not only did i test each laser module with software control, but i ALSO tested it with DMX control. But i finally wanted to give YOU the benefit of the doubt and said, "let me directly input 5V onto each head. Maybe there is an issue with the sfotware/dmx control and not allowing the lasers to reach max. output." YEAH- no such luck. the readings were EXACTLY THE SAME!!! (actually, in all honesty, the readings were LOWER!! i rounded up!!)

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "And that's the power we guarantee, not the output power after all optics."


    If that is the power you "GUARANTEE," how do you explain-
    RED (635nm)- 340mW. GREEN (532nm)- 150mW. BLUE (473nm)- 115mW
    with 5 volts DIRECTLY input on EACH Laser head. i took into account in my first post optic losses. i *DID NOT* measure power directly at aperture of the laser head. i gave you SERIOUS, SERIOUS error correction of optics losses. if my memory serves me correctly- about 60% loss on optics and your laser systems STILL FELL short by "WATTS." we arent talking a few mW or even a few hundred mW. we are talking WATTS of "missing power!!"

    Laserworld-ag wrote:
    "by the way, a measurement under reproducible conditions. I always wonder why the measurements done by competitors always contain such amounts of irreproducibility"


    what the HELL are you talking about?? we are measuring a beam of light shot into a big black cylinder! we arent measuring quantum black holes or photons colliding in string theory experiments!! turn meter on...turn laser on...shoot pretty beam into big black cylinder....read numbers on meter head. youre GRASPING HERE peter! it is making it fun for me though!! so keep going!!

    Laserworld-ag wrote:
    "Of course, whoever does take the measurement, generously allows for a certain amount of loss, mostly with the words "even the worst optics wouldn't loose more than x%”. Well, in fact, it depends - even for the best optics.
    But, as the measurements are usually taken with an open projector - why don't you just measure before the optics, to eliminate any such effects? Maybe because the measurements would be other - higher, and reproducible."


    You asked for it...
    How do you explain THIS:
    laser warmed up for 40 minutes by the way...
    this is your 2 WATT Green LAser system with a CNI laser module in it (NOT a CNI!!) guaranteed to output at least 1.2 WATTS. no modulation. Silvered mirror at aperture laser. NO optics. NO dichros. NO mirrors. NO scanners.

    and shit...ya know what...its WORSE now than the first time i measured it originally!! LOL...so, THANK YOU for making me measure it again!!!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is the picture of Laserworlds "NEW" CNI 2 WATT Laser Module (looks JUST like a CNI 2 Watt doesnt it!?!?!?):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    As you suggested. A 45 degree mirror RIGHT at the aperture to have a direct beam measurement
    Click image for larger version. 

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    As ANY would tell you. putting your hand in a 2 WATT laser beam THIS CLOSE would be stupid! RIGHT?? NOOO!!! not when its only ~340mW. my hand was in that for about 30 seconds AND i took the picture!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    DIRECT BEAM MEASUREMENT-
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    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "Also, from my experience, DPSS lasers take some warm up time, especially blue ones. That's why we take always a series of measurements, not just a still that can show almost anything from zero to a short lived peak way above the normal power.
    And, again especially blue lasers, are quite sensitive to temperature, so it would be nice to know at what ambient temperature the measurements were taken."


    Peter- youre GRASPING. you are trying SOOO HARD its almost comical! the lasers ALL were at room temperature. i keep my thermostat at 68 degrees. ALL lasers were throughly warmed up and lasing for approximately 45 minutes IF NOT MORE before taking ANY readings!

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "We would really be glad to come to a certain set of rules in this respect. Maybe we can reach a level where we have a spec saying "power according to standard X". And, of course we would have to add to standard Y, and so on... "


    there is a standard. its called HONESTY. this is why with *MY* lasers, and almost EVERY OTHER DIGNIFIED LASER COMPANY we rate them at absolute MINIMUMS! if i sell a 100mW laser, it is actually outputting under NORMAL EVERYDAY OPERATING CIRCUMSTANCES more along the lines of 120-150mW. you take a 100mW laser and state its ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM POSSIBLE IF HELL FREEZES OVER PEAK PICOSECOND POSSIBLE PULSED OUTPUT! you take a 100mw laser and if the sun and moon are aligned, if you put 500 volts into the head, lase it in a vacuum, roll it down hill, and do a rain dance, it will output 200mW. then you lable it as a 200mW laser. knowing DAMN WELL it will NEVER EVER EVER reach that power!! i sell a 1 watt RGB pojector under the VERY WORSE conditions AFTER...i repeat...AFTER ALL optics..it STILL outputs well over 1 WATT. unless there is a problem, which, in that case i am there IMMEDIATELY to fix it. and NOT blaming EVERYONE else for the problem. actually, i never had that problem before, but that *IS* how i would handle it!

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "mark I will not go into commenting your special measurements - why should I, you do your measurements, we do ours. And I am sure they will differ, question is why."


    differ....DIFFER???? 3 watts of difference??? you kidding me??? EVERYBODY could understand 10 mw differences. 20 mw differences. shit, maybe even 100mW differences in a 3WATT RGB projector!! but...seriously dude....2 watts of differnces. 3 watts of differences?? PLEASE...think before you type.

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "By the way, in my opinion, it is a bit strange that you posted on the very same day you received the laser, whereas the customer who bought it, and who should be the one concerned, only contacted us a few days later."


    i believe it was a day or 2 later. but what the hell does that have to do with anything? i was PISSED youre lucky i didnt post a video as i was doing it!! the person who purchased it is VERY concerned and pissed off. you ripped them off close to $10,000. if that were me...there wouldnt be any typing. you would have 2 choices. new systems or a FULL refund. PERIOD! they contacted you 2 days later becasue they had the facts, measurements, evidence, and ammo in hand TO contact you.

    laserworld-ag wrote:
    "I am a bit surprised on your general attitude. Compared at our sales in the rest of the world USA was always a minor market for us, didn't think that with these small numbers we have made us so many foes there.


    i could care less if you sold 1 laser a year here or 1,000,000 lasers a year here. my problem with you and your company is that your ripping customers off and making an ALREADY dificult market with an ALREADY dificult negative stigma about it even MORE negative!! i have had AT LEAST 10-15 calls in the past 2 months or so asking me about my projectors and if "they are as bad as laserworld's projectors when it comes to output!" and THAT sir, is an exact quote sorry to say!! the small numbers didnt make you foes in america. your poor attitudes and cheating customers made you foes in america. CNI, Laserwave, Lasever, shit..seven stars...arctos...ALL overseas laser companies ALL have GREAT reputions here in the U.S. so dont come at me with the why you pickin on the foreigner attitude!! PLEASE...gimme an F'in break!

    there will be more to come i am QUITE sure. but right now its dinner time!!!

    -Marc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails LW2 007_1.jpg  

    LW2 011_1.jpg  

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  7. #37
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    OOOHHH---

    DAMN IT! i forgot to address this dingleberry...

    vakuum wrote:
    "If I read the post of "gottaluvlasers" it looks like he has no big knowledge of lasermodules, I'm confused because he sells about the same laser-technology from a other manufacturer... but tell me something other... I don't know you?!?"


    heh?? what?? are you asking me a question, making a statement or telling everyone here that i sell laser modules?? GOOD ONE though! LOL. YOU TOLD ME!!!!

    vakuum wrote:
    "This is a chinese powermeter which is not official callibrated... or is it a other Powermeter?? It is the same powermeter you find on every second chinese Lasersource page... but I'm very interessed to hear what your one is exactly?


    YES! this is a chinese power meter. it is manufactured by laserwave and was indeed calibrated with a coherent filedmate power meter approximately 2 months ago and is accurate to wtihin .1mW from 357nm to over 800nm. in addition to that, i had this meter next to a meter at Gyrus ACMI in stamford CT. (USA) which makes fiber optics and laser systems for medical purposes. ISO 9001 certified, AND FDA audited QUITE often becasue of its medical status it was measuring next to (and i honestly dont know who made it) a computer controlled >$10,000 monstrosity laser meter and it was within 2-5 mW of 2 635nm lasers. 2 532nm lasers. 1 473nm laser and even some crazy ass HeNe laser system at multiple wavelengths. or wait...let me guess...THAT meter in a FACTORY where MEDICAL and MILITARY lasers and fiber optics are made...is not a calibrated or accurate meter either.

    vakuum wrote:
    "This are lasershow parts. And the most big german (I know only the products of them) Projector manufacturers of highend material show only the power of the built in lasers. One big company I know, shows the power after the dichroic mirrors, that means before the scanners... so in fact in the showlaser industry it's normal to show the power of all lasermodules...."


    whether power is measured before, after, on top of, underneath of, around the corner from....ANY optics it should be within reasonable acceptable stated outputs. NO customer would be upset if they purchased a 3.5 WATT projector and only measured 3.3 WATTS after optics. Laserists arent stupid. we know, they know. 99.9% of the people know you lose *some* light with optics. but you are trying to justify a 3.5 WATT RGB laser outputting ~600mW as optical loss and meter errors?? REALLY??? hmmm....who from laserworld asked YOU to post here??? LOL....

    vakuum wrote:
    "I ONLY WANT TO KNOW REAL FACTS !!"


    LOL- dont know how much more *FACTS* you want. there are pics, statements, experiments, track records, reputations, witnesses, comments, papers, tests, results, posts, videos and short of GOD himself interjecting at this point, no more facts CAN be given! LOL.

    have a good day.

    -Marc
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  8. #38
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    Whereas I can't comment on Marc's measurements (although I know they were (almost certainly) done properly (no offence Marc just covering myself here from the lawyers)) I do know from personal experience others on here who definitely do them properly using various reputable meters including COHERENT meters.

    My own Laserworld laser was measured using a COHERENT meter by a well respected member on here and actually came out over stated power. 667mw on a 600mw RGY. Now if it was being measured wrongly that wouldn't have happened would it?

    It would have come out under power like many others allegedly have done so.

    As others have said, you need to be careful who you are talking to on here. You just assume everyone is an amateur (like me) or a competitor. Yet many of the people on here are professionals. Not professionals competing against you in sales of lasers, but display professionals who don't sell any lasers.

    There are people on here who do global events such as Tidy, Awakenings, Qlimax to name but three and who work with one of the world's foremost laserists in doing so. Others are laser experts and electronic experts from various leading companies. Two people are from one of the world's leading laser software / hardware control companies. Many are from ILDA including at least one board member. Some of them build YAG lasers from the crystals up. Many build lasers from the diodes up. So respectfully, assuming everyone doesn't know how to correctly modulate a laser to take a power reading is somewhat naive on your part.

  9. #39
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    Love this thread marc

    Its fantastic how this twat is squirming and your hitting him with all the barrels. they clearly aint got a clue and think were all going to bow down and buy there shitty low quality underpowered lasers.

    This load of pikey carney bastards need taking down by some sort of trading standards law cause they are conning people.

    Thank you so much for this review, this review is the best iv seen. a while back i was looking at buying a laserworld unit but would not go near them after reading so many stories.

    Just a note to peter (if you really do work for laserworld and your not just pissing around to annoy everyone)

    I am an extremly satisfied customer of marc and the reason is not because of the product i got (even though it was fabulous thanks bridge) it wasnt the price of the unit (even though i was satisfied with this) it was the aftersales service i recieved from marc.
    He gave me so much advice on setting up scanners and all sorts totally unrelated to any products he sells. Most of my knowledge was from marc (gottaluvlasers) and he is a great guy.
    He has never presurised me into selling from him and actually told me that cni are an excellent company and well worth buying off.
    This certainly doesnt sound like someone who would try and tarnish a good companys reputation just cause there a competitor.

    Im sorry for this but you as a company are really starting to piss me off cause of your lies, cheating, and blaitant disregard for any sort of customer service. sorry to everyone else but go f**k yourself laser world and go f**k yourself peter.


    ollie
    2 x 10w full colour laser systems
    2 x 4w full colour laser systems
    2 x 3w full colour laser systems
    1 450mw pinkem rgb 30k scanner
    2 x 1 watt green laser
    4 x 1 watt blue 445nm laser systems
    3 watt rgb .

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    Whereas I can't comment on Marc's measurements (although I know they were (almost certainly) done properly (no offence Marc just covering myself here from the lawyers)) I do know from personal experience others on here who definitely do them properly using various reputable meters including COHERENT meters.

    My own Laserworld laser was measured using a COHERENT meter by a well respected member on here and actually came out over stated power. 667mw on a 600mw RGY. Now if it was being measured wrongly that wouldn't have happened would it?
    NO OFFENSE TAKEN AT ALL. I welcome ANY input with VALID SUPPORTING facts. THIS being one of them! and like i said previously, i KNOW laserworld *HAD* a great rep in the past. and i am SURE that not every single one of the products they sell now are this bad. HOWEVER- there is an OVERWHELMING and ALARMING amount of VERY similar circumstances that cant just be attributed to accidents or errors or defects. and in alot of these situations its always the same excuses..

    bad meters, the guy doesnt like me, his company hates my company, hes out to get me, he doesnt know what hes talking about, it was after the dichros, it was before the dichros, it was on a wednesday, the light was traveling up hill....bla bla bla...enough is enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverst14@hotmail.com View Post
    Love this thread marc

    This load of pikey carney bastards need taking down by some sort of trading standards law cause they are conning people.

    Thank you so much for this review, this review is the best iv seen. a while back i was looking at buying a laserworld unit but would not go near them after reading so many stories.

    Just a note to peter (if you really do work for laserworld and your not just pissing around to annoy everyone)

    I am an extremly satisfied customer of marc and the reason is not because of the product i got (even though it was fabulous thanks bridge) it wasnt the price of the unit (even though i was satisfied with this) it was the aftersales service i recieved from marc.
    He gave me so much advice on setting up scanners and all sorts totally unrelated to any products he sells. Most of my knowledge was from marc (gottaluvlasers) and he is a great guy.
    He has never presurised me into selling from him and actually told me that cni are an excellent company and well worth buying off.
    This certainly doesnt sound like someone who would try and tarnish a good companys reputation just cause there a competitor.

    Im sorry for this but you as a company are really starting to piss me off cause of your lies, cheating, and blaitant disregard for any sort of customer service. sorry to everyone else but go f**k yourself laser world and go f**k yourself peter.


    ollie
    hey ollie while i sincerely appreciate the support, and am flattered by your nice comments lets try to not personally attack anyone. the facts, pictures, and testimonys speak for themselves.

    -Marc
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    • Pangolin Laser Software and Hardware
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    • Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems

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