Senior Member
In my experience, people will never say things like this; they respond to improved lock and improved aesthetics in a qualitative way, rather than a quantitative one. I've had lacklustre shows (where, for example, one of my FB3s was laggy and the projector crashed a couple of times due to USB signal integrity problems) and rather than noticing that one laser was slow, the guests at the party just respond slightly less positively than they would otherwise.Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
THIS USER WAS CLUEBYFOURED
Really? Are you sure?? come on, man, that's common sense stuff. I only said that to make a point. While there is always room for improvement no matter what (if I get an FB3, sure I would do better with a LD2000), fortunately for me my audience response has been GREAT!!! They eat the stuff up. As a DJ (who isn't a DJ these days) you should know that 90% of your audience will like your set even if you think it sucks as long as you play good tracks. The real nuances of the mixes (as long as your not a train-wreck king) are known only to you. It's the same with the lasers.
When people come to our events they aren't coming to see lasers, they're coming to listen to music and get wasted, laid, or something like that plain and simple. When we do parties here in STL, we use lasers as merely the icing on the cake. My system runs for maybe an hour total out of an 8+ hour party, only during the peak hours. It's about .01% of the whole show. A 40-80ms lag is meaningless when the shows are done this way. Hell, I could play shows that aren't even synced up at all and the audience (in their widely varying mental states) wouldn't know it. Now I'm not saying that's a license to provide crappy shows, but I am saying that 40-80ms is irrelevant in this type of environment. A perfect sync is very important if you're doing a real concert or a planetarium show, but in front of a few thousand ravers/clubbers who are barely aware of themselves... nah. not so much.
There are certainly times when perfection is needed (it always nice to have perfection, of course, but sometimes budgets prevent it) and others when it's most definitely not. As my experience grows and my equipment improves, so will the caliber of my shows. I'm not going to worry about an 80ms lag when I know I will be the only person to notice.. I'm actually just proud to have the knowledge necessary to build my own equipment (including DACs) and have the kind of results and feedback that I've gotten. It really is amazing what can be done with the right know-how when you are just a guy with no budget, a family and mouths to feed and other obligations that vastly supercede lasers and parties.
Senior Member
Yes, I'm sure.
Yes, I have other commitments (I do this stuff for free, with my own money, just because I love playing with lasers and want to make parties as good as I can).
Yes, I've seen shows go well, and shows that sucked, and yes, the audience was a large part of it.
We've tried running over VNC, and, well, get this: I don't actually care if the audience can't tell the difference because they're tripping, rolling, drunk or just plain ignorant. *I* can tell the difference. Remember, I'm doing this because I want to do it, not because someone is paying me to do it- I'm doing it for my own personal satisfaction. That satisfaction is maximized when I'm playing the best show I possibly can.
As for people not being able to tell the difference between a good DJ and a bad one- that is absolute and total rubbish. I've seen a party go from "losing people" to "banging it hardstyle" when a good DJ came on. It wasn't the tracks (Berlin techno all sounds kinda the same). It was the skill at working the crowd that mattered.
THIS USER WAS CLUEBYFOURED
[QUOTE=heroic;110859
As for people not being able to tell the difference between a good DJ and a bad one... [/QUOTE]
You've got to stop putting words in my mouth... that's not what I said. Of course a DJs persona and track selection have a HUGE impact on show quality, but if his mixes are 40-80ms out of sync, there are very few people who would notice it, especially on a big system in a big, acoustically imperfect space.
Look, the real bottom line is that it's different strokes for different folks.. As long as people still come up to me after the show and are thrilled I'm happy. that's what counts. The people who pay me to do the shows still ask me to come back and do more. I couldn't be more pleased. Sure I could improve my shows, I'm sure you could improve yours (oh, no wait, you define perfection in every facet of your life and personality, apologies for even suggesting otherwise). I, myself, and only me can't justify spending over $100 for a few ms improvement that *I* and only *I* will notice. There will be a time when I will have to justify it, just not quite yet.
Senior Member
I'm glad you're having a good time. You seem a little overly defensive though.
The really cool part about this device is that it means I can run more than one FB3. Can't do that with VNC.
THIS USER WAS CLUEBYFOURED
I can always be counted on to defend myself when people twist what I'm saying around. There's very little I despise more than that.
Junior Member
This might be part of it... our rep around town has reached the point where we're getting booked to handle complete shows. There aren't a bunch of other random lights and crew doing their own thing because people have accepted that it actually takes away from a great visual performance. Even the bartenders are reaching the point of trying to help control spill lighting. Where there are other visual elements, they're coordinated with the lasers so it all works together.
Even when working with another crew in charge, having consistenct response in the gear enables cooperation in a way that creates a perceptible impact on the audience. It's also much easier to find the groove and feel creative when you're working with your gear and not in spite of its shortcomings. When you can see where the DJ is going and accent the drama directly on beat, it just feels incredible.
THIS USER WAS CLUEBYFOURED
^You're definitely right about that. "doing their own thing" wasn't the proper wording and I apologize for that. At our shows there are two parties working the lights, myself on lasers only, and Dan, my colleague doing the rest. He's a genius and I put myself at his disposal. He runs the whole show, I just control the lasers at his whim more or less. The end result is an excellent all around experience.
My only point throughout this entire discourse has been that I, speaking only for myself, feel that a few ms is not noticeable. 80ms is less than 1/10 of a second. The echoes bouncing off the walls take more time than that to calm after each drumbeat. It is a frivolous amount of time, really.
For the record, I am on a serious budget. Times are tight for myself and many others. I cannot afford to buy more expensive hardware until I complete a few more shows. Then the quality of my shows will increase. There is room for people like me in the laser business, especially here in STL. I understand that there are better ways and better gear, but I am quite proud of what I have done with my limited resources. I have a lot of confidence in the capabilities of my DIY hardware because I have seen the results myself. I don't need some geeky laser snob insinuating that my shows must be shit just because he/she has so much more.. Good for them. Time will cure my problems, time won't cure a shitty attitude. Thank god for the ignore feature.
I'm costantly hearing about "pangolin this" and "FB3 that" and it is FINE hardware, don't get me wrong. That's no reason to act like people who are trying to do things DIY don't have a clue what they're talking about. Nothing could be further from the truth. Take the soundcard DAC for example. If you build it right and use the right software you cannot find a better solution at the price point. For someone on a budget it is cost effective and you get the satisfaction of saying that you build every part of your system. Sure, it has its limits, and sure the other stuff performs better, but that's still no reason to act like we're not able to please the audience. 99.9% of the population of this planet wouldn't know an FB3 show from my soundcard DAC show unless they were placed side by side.. that's the truth of the matter.
Oh, and I also want to add that 80ms is less time than the sound leaving the speakers takes to reach the back of the audience in a large venue.. so depending on where you're standing the laser might be on beat, or a few tens of ms off beat.
Last edited by ElektroFreak; 08-13-2009 at 19:47.
Senior Member
As I recall, *you* were the one who seemed to think the audience couldn't tell the difference between a poor show and a good one. I never said anything about the quality of your work- I've never seen it, so I'd never comment on it.
Senior Member
THIS USER WAS CLUEBYFOURED
Yes Ma'am!
Senior Member
Wow, what a tool.
I've discovered that the USB-to-ethernet thingamajigger fits nicely in the flight case with the laser :-) I've put some industrial Velcro on both the projector and the USB doodad, so I can stick one on top of the other and have them stay put.
Senior Member
I just found this thing: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.27164
After discovering newegg wont ship to Aus, I think this would be my next bet? and a few $ cheaper. Maybe i'll buy it and see what happens lol.
Senior Member
Hrm... My airport extreme has a usb port on it. I wonder if that'll work with my FB3... Damn do I wish I had my projector with me on this tour...
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra
Senior Member
No. It only supports printers and storage devices.
Senior Member
GAH! stupid apple and their stupid stupidness.
at least it was free.
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra
THIS USER WAS CLUEBYFOURED
I picked one of those up.. didn't work with anything I have except a printer. Seemed like it might work, though.
Senior Member
The WiFi/router/hub system I started this thread about also works with Pangolin LivePro, the new QuickShow but NOT with LiveQuick using an FB3-SE.
LiveQuick, to run, seems to need assess to the card fitted inside FB3-SE and using the WiFi system it just can't seem to see it.
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F#uck Off - John Lydon - the 80's
Senior Member
It also works with the LAStudio stuff, which is nice. My guess is that the LiveQ thing issues a command to the FB3 that causes it to change its USB identity, which doesn't work with these devices (they also don't work with my USB AVRs when they switch to DFU mode).
Senior Member
Did the belkin hub with the wireless router ever get tested with a USB Soundcard DAC?
Senior Member
Hey guys. Today while recuperating from last night, stumbled across this:
do any of you think this'll work with the fb3?
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra
Senior Member
No, it won't, at least unless Bill Benner ports FB3 drivers to Linux.
Senior Member
Hrm. Good point. I sort of completely missed that part (because I am awesome). Such a pretty little package though.
"TO DO IS TO BE" - Nietzsche
"TO BE IS TO DO" - Kant
"DO BE DO BE DO" - Sinatra
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