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Thread: Building First Scanner Help?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Richardson TX USA
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    Default Building First Scanner Help?

    Ok I have been reading on here and LPF for a few day snow on how to build a scanner and I think I have it down but I just want to make sure before I buy all the other parts

    I have acquired a CNI MGL-H-532/1200mW, 10% Power stability, 1.5Mrad beam, with 30kTTL modulation, A PSU-H-FDA PS

    Now the next thing is Some DT25's from http://www.dzelaser.com/dt25.htm
    And since I am going to mainly use it for beam shows but would also like graphic shows should I tune them or have them tuned for 20k for the 5x10mm mirrors? And how many degrees would I get with that set up? Plus I think I read that he does the tuning that is why I decided to go with him instead of lasershowparts

    And the last thing I think I need is FB3-SE but I do not know where to get it form or if I should get the xe version.

    then I will also acquire a 1/4" thick aluminum plate but I do not know how big yet

    And I think that is all I need please tell me if this will work and if I am missing anything like I said this is my first scanner but I am not new to lasers plus I am good with electronics and their seems to be plenty of diagrams on here on how to hook these things together but I am still a little skeptical so any pointers to what you consider good diagrams or how to's is also good

    Thank you and this seems to be a very good forum hopefully you guys are just as helpful as it seems : )
    Michael

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cairns, Australia
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    1,896

    Default

    Hey there, welcome to PL

    The laser should serve you well, good choice

    The DT25's come pre-tuned, and DZ is a very nice guy, and sometimes (Or all the time) tunes them before he ships them. I've had mine for maybe a year now, haven't had to tune them once As for the mirror sizes, defualt is 5x10mm and you should be able to get 25K out of then at that size. If you want a larger angle for beams, just turn it down in the software. Only time you would need bigger mirrors was if you were using 635nm lasers etc.

    The FB3 SE is just the board, designed to be implemented into the projector itself. If you don't need the DMX function, you may want to look into the XE, as it comes pre-built into a box, saves you a bit of work

    You may want to also pick up a DB25 breakout board from DZ, as this will make wiring much easier.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Things; 10-05-2009 at 21:37.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Richardson TX USA
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    Default

    So should I go with the 20K tuning with a wider angle or should I go 25k for better graphics if I mainly want a beam show but still want to be able to do half way decent looking graphics like how much of a difference will there be?....... also how wide of an angle do you get at 20k compared to 25k?
    I am still confused as to what DMX is and also where do I pick up the FB3 at?



    Michael

  4. #4
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    Nov 2007
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    Default

    I would say keep them tuned for 25K, because you can turn the speed down in the software, which will let you scan wider. If you tune them for 20K, you will only be able to go up to 20K, and the scan angle can still be achieved if you tune them higher. Angle isn't really a problem, it's speed at that angle.

    DMX is a lighting control protocol, which can be used to control the FB3 remotely (distort the downloaded patterns on the fly), which is great if you can't have a computer up on the truss etc, but for many hobbyists it's not a need.

    FB3 can be bought here: https://www.pangolin.com/orders/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    7,067

    Exclamation Safety first...

    Goggles... get some hefty safety goggles with that much power in your first projector. You will need to steer the beam to the scanners and sometimes you will get unexpected results and reflections while "en-route". As this is not an analog laser you cannot turn it down during this process so you will be steering over a Watt of green... Goggles...
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,147,489,446

    Cool

    Hi F22 - welcome to PhotonLexicon.

    Where are you located? (You didn't fill out your profile information.) There may be some people close to you that you can meet with to get some one-on-one attention re: your projector build.

    Also, a 1.2 watt green is a pretty beefy laser for a first time build. Aaron's point is a good one - you *need* some goggles in order to be able to work on that projector safely. Goggles are cheap these days too. Be sure you pick up a pair before you start construction.

    Finally, what do you intend to use the laser for? (You are aware that US regulations require you to certify the projector with the CDRH and obtain a show variance before you use the projector for a commercial show, right?) If you just want to fool around in your basement or garage, that's fine, but if you want to use it in a show for the general public, you're taking a *huge* risk unless you do it legally. (See this thread for details on what happens when the CDRH comes calling.) We can help you with the paperwork you'll need to file, but you'll also need to make sure you build the projector such that it's compliant.

    As for scan angles, if you're doing very simple fans and stuff you should be able to push them to around 30 degrees or so, even at 25Kpps. For graphics though, you'll be limited to between 12 and 15 degrees. You can always tune them down to 20kpps though and get a wider angle.

    When I reviewed those scanners I didn't test the max scan angle, but I suspect you'll be able to get at least 40 degrees out of them if you tune them slower. Just don't try to display anything complicated at that angle or they'll shut down on overtemp!

    What sort of graphics are you interested in displaying? Simple text and basic images are OK even at 20K, but for more complex logos and animation stuff you'll want to be running at a full 30K. If you can't decide between beams and graphics, then start with beams for now. Later you can always buy a faster set of scanners and swap them out for the DT-25's.

    Adam

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Richardson TX USA
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    Default

    I am a few miles north of Dallas Texas in the USA.

    Like I said this is not my first time around high power lasers and I do have some I think their OD 2.5 532nm laser shades so I am covered, their one Jack at Opto sells.

    Hu I was hoping to use it commercially also so I will need help making it compliant with CDRH as I knew there were laws but I didn’t know how serious they were so ya going to need to make it complaint with them so I am guessing I need all sorts of stop buttons, switches, pull strings well honestly I have no idea what I would need but I know my laser is FDA certified : )

    That’s cool so you can have them tuned for 25Kpps but yet use the software to slow them down and do say a wider angle for a fan or circle things. Like I said I still have a lot more to learn as I hardly know any of this stuff even after reading a lot on both forums lol my brain actually hurt this morning think it was because I wasn’t drinking enough water :P

    anyway so if I buy all those parts for now then it would work, but what else do I need to make it complaint with the CDRH? and do you have to get a lience to do these shows?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,147,489,446

    Smile

    Dallas, eh? There are several members on PL that live in Texas, including a few who do shows commercially. Unfortunately, I don't think they've had a "Texas Laser Enthusiast's Meeting" yet... Still, a couple weeks ago one of our members (Stuka) was in Texas for a week or two, and he met up with a few fellow laserists. I suggest you get in touch with Stuka and see if he can put you in contact with them.

    As for making the laser compliant, it's mostly about labeling, plus a few key safety features and a lot of paperwork. You'll want a mechanical shutter inside the projector, and an interlock circuit that will close the shutter and kill power to the lasers when tripped. The interlock needs to actuate whenever the ILDA cable is removed, or whenever the remote kill switch is pressed. (This means you need to build a box with the kill switch on it that is wired to the projector and will be sitting next to you when you are running the projector.)

    You'll need a keyswitch too - one where the key can only be removed in the off position. Also, you'll need an emission indicator, plus some sort of power-on delay for the lasers. For details on all the specifics, here's a good start: 21 CFR 1040.10 and 21 CFR 1040.11 Or, for a basic overview, have a look around this site.

    There's no licensing required, but you need to have a variance for the show. And before you get a variance, you have to file a product report for the projector. (All that is explained in the links to the code of federal regulations above, though I admit that it's dense reading...) Also, you'll probably want some form of event insurance, just to cover you ass.

    Any chance of you making a trip to Florida for the first weekend in December? We're going to have a Florida Laser Enthuisast's Meeting on December 5th... It would be an opportunity for you to see several different projectors (most of which will be full RGB units), and you'll get a chance to talk to the people who built them. You can look under the hood and see how things are put together and wired up, and you'll also get to see how the software works. More to the point, you'll be able to watch some *great* laser shows.

    Plus we're a pretty social group to start with, so it's not like you'll be attending some seminar... More like a backyard BBQ atmosphere, only with lasers. (And your particular alcoholic beverage of choice...) Won't cost you anything except the trip there and back, plus whatever cash you spend on hotels, food, and drink. It sure would help you when you decide to start building your projector! Give it some thought anyway, and if you're interested, the details are in the FLEM thread in the meet and greet sub-forum.

    Adam

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Richardson TX USA
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    Default

    Wow looks like I have a lot more reading to do.....
    Just wonder but can anybody post some pictures of these connections especially form FB3 to DB25 breakout board then to galvos and lasers? Plus the DB25 has the interlock circuit that will close the shutter but I don't know if it will kill power to the lasers when tripped, but it does actuate whenever the ILDA cable is removed I believe. The other stuff seems kind of easy and then theirs paper work : ) Plus what is a variance for a show?

    And about the Florida Laser Enthusiast's Meeting on December 5th I would try to attend that if I do not have classes that week(freshmen college student).... difficult part would be getting from Orlando airport to their? Wonder if greyhound goes that far.
    Thank you for all your help so far
    Michael

    p.s. just read over a little bit and caught this An Initial Product Report must be generated and filed with the CDRH. 1002.10 This is typically a 40 to 60 page technical document for each different model. do i need that?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    1,622

    Default

    ^In the laser show section on LPF there are LOTS of diagrams.. just thoroughly read these threads:

    http://laserpointerforums.com/f47/fi...ers-42089.html

    http://laserpointerforums.com/f47/ne...ers-32674.html

    (I know, I know, it's a travesty to send someone to LPF for info, but these threads contain MUCH valuable info)

    Also, @buffo: If I use the non-OEM full-size PSU in a monochrome scanner and leave the front panel easily accessible, does the keyswitch and emission indicator suffice in terms of CDRH compliance?

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