Pangolin Quickshow for FB3 released!

[Things]

Livepro also locks up whilst saving so I'm sure its just an artefact of the save process for such a large file.

Yeah, though the time required could be decreased greatly by only saving the cues you have modified, and not the ones that are already there over again.

[Pangolin]

Livepro also locks up whilst saving so I'm sure its just an artefact of the save process for such a large file.

I am not sure that LivePRO always and forever locks up while saving. Otherwise how could people create the workspaces in the first place?

Rather, I believe that it has to do with the amount of memory in your compuer. In order to Save, LivePRO (and also QuickShow) needs to allocate memory to do things. If your computer is "tight" to begin with, it really can't allocate memory and it might lock up. This was discovered recently and changes have been made (including adding a "free memory" indicator to QuickShow and making it color coded).

I am not sure about LivePRO, but we absolutely recommend at very minimum of 1GB of memory for QuickShow. As I wrote in a previous post, that workspace might look like only 100MB on disk, but when it loads into your computer's memory, it is well over 350MB!!!

These days you can buy another gig of ram for around $35. With QuickShow that would be well worth it... Probably the same can be said of LivePRO.

Bill

PS: Norty, have you ever written to Pangolin privately to describe your problems? I have to say, I've never received an email about LivePRO and locking up. If we had, we would have done more investigating. I keep saying it but public forums are REALLY not the place to discuss problems...

[Pangolin]

Yeah, though the time required could be decreased greatly by only saving the cues you have modified, and not the ones that are already there over again.

First let me make statement of general principal. At Pangolin, we're strong believers in conservative principals and the power of the individual. If you are a programmer, please join our team. That way, you can work on the parts that are important to you. Otherwise you'll have to wait until we get around to working on those parts.

With that statement about general principals having been said, I will tell you that since build 128 (the build everyone here is using) there has been work done to improve the speed of loading and saving workspaces. And I will also say that if you've got a computer that is "tight", it will take longer to load and save the workspace. If you've got a computer that's "really tight", it might take hours...

Now, a few definitions. QuickShow is an amazing program. That's a fact. But it takes memory. That's also a fact. If you've got a computer with "only" 1GB, do all of us a favor and spend $35 on another gig. It makes QuickShow run a whole lot faster and better. If you've got a computer with 512MB (like my desktop computer for example), QuickShow will indeed run with 512MB, but expect to wait hours while saving a workspace.

In the literature, we state 1GB as a *minimum* requirement.

Best regards,

William Benner

[Pangolin]

1. If i want to use Quickshow, i just have to buy fb3?

Essentially yes. Anyone who has a Pangolin FB3, QuickShow will run. (A distinction was made about "Pangolin FB3" because there are other companies who use FB3 such as NEO-NEON, and whose license terms were different.)

And from now on, anyone who purchases an FB3 from Pangolin will receive QuickShow.

2. Is there new fb3 hardware? (i read somewhere something about fb3 QS version...)

There will be a new FB3 being released next year. It doesn't have removable memory (which some people value) and can be seen as a USB-to-Laser converter (of course Pangolin hardware is always much more than this, but this is a simple way of looking at it).

As I wrote, it doesn't have removable memory, but does have six color channels. I am not sure if the older FB3-related software will run on this hardware or not. We'll have to do some testing to see. After all, we call it "FB3-QS" because it is our intention to include this with QS and not really run other software...

3. Will price change because of such major update/upgrade?

No the price will stay the same. Even in the case of the FB3-QS hardware, it costs less money because the memory connector is removed, but more money because of additional color channels. It's a wash in cost, so we have kept the price the same.

4. Do Pangolin really has central europe branch office in Slovenia??? i thought America doesnt know that our small country exists

Pangolin has a small office in Slovenia. And we have a small office in China too. The fact is, we'll work with anyone who is competent and honest. We have people working with Pangolin all over the world, including several in Germany, some in France, one guy in Polland, three guys in Ukraine, some in California, etc. I am sure I am forgetting someone...

Just recently hooked up with a guy in UK who might be doing some SMS-related work.

Bill

[Things]

First let me make statement of general principal. At Pangolin, we're strong believers in conservative principals and the power of the individual. If you are a programmer, please join our team. That way, you can work on the parts that are important to you. Otherwise you'll have to wait until we get around to working on those parts.

With that statement about general principals having been said, I will tell you that since build 128 (the build everyone here is using) there has been work done to improve the speed of loading and saving workspaces. And I will also say that if you've got a computer that is "tight", it will take longer to load and save the workspace. If you've got a computer that's "really tight", it might take hours...

Now, a few definitions. QuickShow is an amazing program. That's a fact. But it takes memory. That's also a fact. If you've got a computer with "only" 1GB, do all of us a favor and spend $35 on another gig. It makes QuickShow run a whole lot faster and better. If you've got a computer with 512MB (like my desktop computer for example), QuickShow will indeed run with 512MB, but expect to wait hours while saving a workspace.

In the literature, we state 1GB as a *minimum* requirement.

Best regards,

William Benner

I see what you are saying, and I don't mind waiting, it's just one of those things that could be beneficial in the long run

Quickshow doesn't lock up when saving, though.

But I do agree it's a very impressive program.

Yes, my computer isn't impressive (1.6Ghz Atom, 2GB DDR2 etc), but it works fine other than that.

[norty303]

PS: Norty, have you ever written to Pangolin privately to describe your problems? I have to say, I've never received an email about LivePRO and locking up. If we had, we would have done more investigating. I keep saying it but public forums are REALLY not the place to discuss problems...

Hi Bill

I think you've misunderstood a couple of my posts recently. If I have a problem that I want you to look at (that I know you aren't already e.g. the low power thread) then I email you about it.

In this case I was simply offering an explanation that the lock ups weren't exclusive to Quickshow. I haven't logged it as an issue because it isn't an issue for me. When I've finished a show, having to wait 30secs to a minute whilst LivePro closes is not a problem, and quite understandable given the size of the file (nearly 1/2GB in my case) it's having to save.

That said, I'm not sure that I agree that public forums aren't the best place to discuss issues. I personally think they are great for getting a concensus of opinion about whether a problem exists in the first place (e.g. aforementioned power output thread) before raising it as an actual issue (or not, if concensus agrees it's a user/machine issue).

So in this case, someone says lockups/slow saving, others confirm its normal - no problem.

[Phredy1]

Quickshow is a great program. I am excited to see what Beyond will bring!

A question: Does anyone know how to create a new cue in the Atmospherics / Q-clicks 1 page? I have found some nice combinations of cues and tried to save them to a new cue in the Q-clicks 1 folder, but have not had any success. There must be something I am not doing right, but I can't figure out what it is. I really like the multiple cues in one click.

-Gene

[Pangolin]

I'm not sure that I agree that public forums aren't the best place to discuss issues.

Many times -- perhaps even most times, I don't even see a post about a Pangolin product being discussed on PL. Many times it is a user who sends me an email and says "Hey, a Pangolin product is being discussed here, go take a look". But this only happens a little bit of the time.

So you have your choice between discussing things in public amongst a bunch of people who may be able to commiserate with you, but can't help you a bit. Or sending one private email to Pangolin and have us start working on it right away.

It's really your choice...

Personally I've considered purposely ignoring all posts regarding problems reported here on PL, and only responding to those who write directly. That way only those people who do it the right way get their prayers answered, and people who took it publicly don't get anything...

If you've got a problem with a Pangolin product, there is one sure-fire way to get it resolved, and that's to write to the people who created the product in the first place...

We have a lot of tools to help privately (past EXE versions, debug versions, log files, etc.) but I am not going to involve the public in this.

I'm the only person on the Pangolin team who monitors PL, and, as I wrote in previous posts, due to my travel and otehr factors, it could be weeks or months that go by between the time I have a chance to look at this forum. But I answer around 100 emails per day, so it's not like we aren't responsive (see the post from Mr. Coffee who reported that we responded on Thanksgiving day -- actually one of only 30 emails that went out that day.)

So again, you've got your choice between airing a problem amongst a bunch of people who can't help you, or sending a single private email to the only people who can...

Bill

[norty303]

between airing a problem amongst a bunch of people who can't help you

Oh contraire, I think you'll find that a good number of questions are very ably answered about your products on this forum that never involve your good selves. In fact it probably keeps a good amount of traffic from your door, particularly those questions that have been answred previously.

Hell, if it didn't work, why would you have your own forums?

I don't even see a post about a Pangolin product being discussed on PL

Good. Please do not think I'm implying that I think that we should be able to discuss stuff here AND expect you to see everything. However, don't expect people to NOT talk about your products here. It is after all a discussion forum and knowledge base for all things laser related, including your products.

[Pangolin]

OK Norty,

You've made a few good points .

But if it seems like a bug, you'd get fastest service by going right to our doorstep.

Bill

[smogthemog]

My laptop, a Clevo D47V, has a 3Ghz processor but the MB will only take 1Ghz of Ram
It's really annoying when company's do that!

[White-Light]

Rather, I believe that it has to do with the amount of memory in your compuer. In order to Save, LivePRO (and also QuickShow) needs to allocate memory to do things. If your computer is "tight" to begin with, it really can't allocate memory and it might lock up. This was discovered recently and changes have been made (including adding a "free memory" indicator to QuickShow and making it color coded).

I think often people underestimate the power of memory. Memory alone can increase a pc's speed many times by simply alleviating scratch disc usage.

I have 4GB in my pc and even then at times I can run down to below 1GB free with certain everyday photo or video editing programmes.

On windows XP, games such as Battlefield 2 required at least 2Gb to run comfortably - even windows XP used to use over 1GB for itself once AV and other everyday run items were active.

Vista, is even more memory intensive.

If I was building a pc now, even for Windows 7 which shows a reduction in system requirements, I'd still be aiming at 4GB memory minimum with 6GB as the ideal target.

On any system to guarantee an overhead you want at least 1GB more than the system requires and the more the better. 1GB sounds a lot but you'd be surprised just how quickly a photo or video editor or a game or maybe any type of show software will eat it up. Whereas Pango may be built to be economic with memory, anyone on here running it as a professional should really consider having copious amounts of memory in my opinion, as after all, during a show you could easily pull large amounts of effects and MP3's into the memory and then your entirely dependant on how good all the relevant programmes are in unloading them to ensure you don't run out.

[White-Light]

My laptop, a Clevo D47V, has a 3Ghz processor but the MB will only take 1Ghz of Ram
It's really annoying when company's do that!

I believe that if you're running Vista or Windows 7 its possible to use a memory stick as additional system memory although it is much slower:

Ready Boost: http://www.officialwindowsmagazine.c...-computer.html

[danielbriggs]

blah, blah, blah... something about loads of RAM blah, blah, blah

"640K ought to be enough for anybody"






How Windows treats RAM is analogous to DFS...(yes the furniture shop)
Give it a very small tiny bar stool, and it will be happy to sit there teetering around in the corner.
Give it a luxury three piece leather suite, and it will take the same amount of delight in stretching out end to end lying down, with a nice cold beer.

[FourDee]

I was wondering what the beyond engine does to test patterns ...

[highvolt]

Well, let's put it this way. With the old software, i should have tuned my scanners. I never did it, because for a newbie like me, it sounds tricky enough to mess up everything.

With Quickshow, my patterns look a lot better.

Although there is one thing.. Quickshow put's the default scanning width/height at 50%. So that's another reason they look better.

I was wondering what the beyond engine does to test patterns ...

[JeroenVDV]

I was wondering what the beyond engine does to test patterns ...

As far as I know, Beyond is a bit like the realtime 3DS Max Pangolin plugin. It does tracing of the images in realtime and processes them to laser frames just like the 3DS Max plugin.

Because of this "renderer" running in background you don't care about points/lines/blanking anymore because the renderer takes care of the laser related part, the user only cares about images/effects.

[smogthemog]

Will Pango stuff work with Windows 7?

[ChrisPriest]

I'm running the FB3 on Windows 7 64bit with no problems at all

[norty303]

Just a quick heads up so that people don't come unstuck like I did at the weekend (although everyone else might be 'in the know' already )
Beam attenuation maps don't currently work in build 128. Bill has told me that they are already sorted for the next release.

It wasn't until I was setting up my zones at the gig that I found this to be the case, luckily I had LivePro with me too, although it was a shame as I'd put a bit of work into setting up a new workspace and animations specially and didn't get to use them.

[White-Light]

I haven't had a chance to test it properly yet but it seems to be working on my Windows 7 64 bit install. I have an older build though and no way to test output.

[keanesey]

Here's a funny story. A lady calls Pangolin and asks us about the minimum requirements to run our IMU software. There are none. So I tell her "there are none".

OK, during the conversation it comes out that she is a soccer mom. Unsophisticated computer user. Only thing she knows is that other products have "minimum requirements" and so therefore, it must be an important thing to ask. So she REALLY REALLY wants me to tell her the minimum requirements. Really, there are none...

I tell here "any PC that you can lay your hands on will work with IMU". But still that isn't good enough for her... In the end, she got so mad at us that she didn't buy our software. I think she believed we were trying to be evasive. But really -- IMU will work on any PC!!

So as a result of that "lesson", and also looking at brochures for other products, we figured we should list a "minimum requirement" of some kind.

Now, here's the deal. While working with clients recently and demonstrating QS, I installed QS on lots of PCs. Amazing vareity. QS ran on all of them.

My own PC is a P4 with only 512MB of memory. QS will indeed run on my PC but it is "tight"...

Yes, the previewing of those QuickFX does take up CPU time and you will notice a slowdown of responsiveness if you've got a "tight" PC.

And there is another factor. Although the workspace is only 100MB on disk, it expands to around 350MB in your computer's memory. My PC having only 512MB of memory -- again, is "tight".

So although QS will run on every PC we tried, we gotta list some minimum requirements -- if for no other reason, to appeas the soccer moms out there. And we've also got to have some kind of "headroom" so if someone starts complaining about "hey, these QuickFX make it choppy on my P4 computer" we can come back with "we told you so"...

We also plan on adding more to QS. More capabilities (which will require more CPU speed) and more real laser shows which, if we put them into the same workspace, is clearly going to take more memory. So we list a "minimum requirement" which is really greater than is needed today, just so we have some headroom for tomorrow.

These days I doubt you could even buy a computer without a dual-core processor and a gig of ram. I don't think that's an unreasonable requirement. So that's why we put it there.

Bill

Quick show is Awesome!! some new images also,Christmas themes great! and just in time.....Good Job!!

[decix]

Yes, it's nice. But no need for a full-quote...

[dave321]

Quickshow is a great program. I am excited to see what Beyond will bring!

A question: Does anyone know how to create a new cue in the Atmospherics / Q-clicks 1 page? I have found some nice combinations of cues and tried to save them to a new cue in the Q-clicks 1 folder, but have not had any success. There must be something I am not doing right, but I can't figure out what it is. I really like the multiple cues in one click.

-Gene

hi phredy1,

try this...

1. open q capture
2. click on a cue
3. click the add button
4. select another cue
5. click the add button.....and so on

6. then drag the q capture tab to and empty cue and bingo......several cues saved in one cue..............(simple when you know how)

dave321

[Phredy1]

Thanks!!!!!

Works perfect.

-Gene