Lousy show programming rant...

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Originally Posted by Bradfo69

That's my rant.... musing... whatever you call it.

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how much did Bill pay you? I kid, I kid

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Originally Posted by swamidog

there absolutely is a ton of really crap shows out there. some of them are mine.

i'm not looking to start a religious war.

my least favorite shows are clip art and cartoons that are poorly sequenced to music. i call them laser ransom notes. don't get me started about how boring it is when lyrics are all interpreted literally. if i see one more heart with wings poorly synched to the word "love" in the song..

i see this a lot with quickshow shows. it's not quickshow's fault. quickshow is quite capable and the bar to show creation is low. it's just show creators taking the easy way. i think, for a number of people, having a lot of content at your finger tips discourages exploration and creation. even if some of the provided content has not aged well or is of mediocre quality.

i have not seen very many quickshow shows that i think highly of, but there are some artists (points to mike dunn and buffo) that make really excellent shows for ld2k.

i'm not sure that it's fair to assume the shows on pangolin's show portal are the best there is. if an artist works a couple hundred hours on a show (i have), they may not be inclined to give it away, or they may not be able to because they're working for a company that doesn't allow it or licensing prevents it. my enjoyment factor is generally higher with the shows on the PLFTP than show portal. folks like whiteg and steve milani(sp) have made some great stuff and been very generous with it.

remember when video toasters came out and suddenly all the commercials and tv shows were using stock toaster wipes? that's how i view most laser shows.

tldr:

no matter what software package you use, you're never going to make great shows until you break away from button mashing stock cues.

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did you see my Samson and Delilah quick-show show a couple years back at SELEM? was pre-beyond and way better than anything I was able to produce in LD2k

LD2k is incredibly powerful... but at the same time it lacks things that QS/Beyond now allow you to do (like stack similar effects etc)

after getting Beyond I haven't touched LD2k or Live Pro, don't miss them *at all*

LSX is for mathematicians as Beyond is for engineers... whats the software package for artists?

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Originally Posted by flecom

how much did Bill pay you? I kid, I kid



did you see my Samson and Delilah quick-show show a couple years back at SELEM? was pre-beyond and way better than anything I was able to produce in LD2k

LD2k is incredibly powerful... but at the same time it lacks things that QS/Beyond now allow you to do (like stack similar effects etc)

after getting Beyond I haven't touched LD2k or Live Pro, don't miss them *at all*

LSX is for mathematicians as Beyond is for engineers... whats the software package for artists?

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I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't seen your Samson and Delilah show. Do you have a link on youtube, or will you be showing it this year?

I'm an artist, not a mathematician. LSX works great for me. ;)

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Originally Posted by swamidog

I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't seen your Samson and Delilah show. Do you have a link on youtube, or will you be showing it this year?

I'm an artist, not a mathematician. LSX works great for me. ;)

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I've seen what you do in LSX the results are art, but the path getting there... it's just not something I can wrap my head around...

I won't be going to SELEM this year and I don't even know if I have that show anymore, the laptop it was on was stolen unfortunately... but that show came out really great IMHO, it was only a hand full of frames that I used tons of effects on to create the desired effect... plus some DMX frames for the mobolazers...

I want to do more classical music shows but alas, the time and most importantly motivation/inspiration hasn't been there

I'm lasered out man

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Originally Posted by flecom

... software package for artists?

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..the Z-5? :)

Seriously, I still need to dig deeper into both LSX and Beyond, but.. LD2K makes me want to spoon my eyes out, and LivePro, although it rocks, has it's 'ceiling' / frustrations, as well, but.. There's just no 'end all / be all'... Wish BB could have snagged Kai Krause, back in the day.. Imagine an engine like Beyond or LSX, w/ the GUI of Bryce or KPT.. :cool: ...One can dream..

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Originally Posted by dkumpula

I do not see your name on the SELEM attendee list..

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Thanks, Sir David, but.. I - highly - doubt I'll be able to make it, just way-too much goin on / to juggle, right now.. Have far too much backlog / imminent deliverables on my shoulders the next 3-4 weeks to 'come out and play'.. I'm sure, though, that I'll come-out there again, one day, and would even, perhaps, be a better time, anyway, if I can bring a 'background fx' rig / demo unit, etc.. The 'eyeball fx', there, was just the tip of the iceberg, with that one technique, even.. So many others.. :cool:

j

Part of the problem is the definition of "show" - one number doesn't make a show. If you're only doing one number - then why not throw everything including the kitchen sink into it? If you do a show that way every number will look the same and you will bore the audience to sleep (or out the door). Complexity and good don't always go hand in hand. Simple done well has a quality too. Laser shows are what the VR community calls Visual Music. Most of the people who have written about Visual Music or Lumia get the analogy wrong. They talk about painting with light, but what it's about is dancing with light.

Oh, I heartily agree with that.

Naturally what I mean by "show" in this thread, is simply "song". And specifically songs accompanied by choreographed beams. I'm not talking songs accompanied by graphics, abstracts, lumia, etc. Although.... I'm not saying the two can't be very well mixed.

Most everything I do with lasers is playing beams (and other lighting such as moving heads) along with a DJ, for predominately weddings. I don't even like referring to that as being a "show".

I do/have however, put on "shows". Which are your say 50 minute, theater style seating type experience where "watching" is the objective and not, drinking and dancing and not paying much attention to the lasers - just knowing they're there.

For a "show" in that context, yes, I'm using beams, graphics, abstracts, scrim, strobes, uplighting, moving heads and other intelligent lighting, scrim, lumia, gratings, beam rails, bounce mirrors, Blisslights, etc. It's planned, choreographed and... rehearsed and tested to a great degree. THAT's a show.... :)

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Originally Posted by JohnYayas

I have always thought it would be a good idea to have open source shows where people can take public shows, tweak them, and then save their changes back.

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Maybe people should start uploading show files to for example github, that would work pretty much like you describe!

I once programmed a Spaghetti show using NO cues. Instead I used ASCII characters and effects. Just for the hell of it to see what was possible in an abstract way.

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Originally Posted by laserist

Part of the problem is the definition of "show" - one number doesn't make a show. If you're only doing one number - then why not throw everything including the kitchen sink into it? If you do a show that way every number will look the same and you will bore the audience to sleep (or out the door). Complexity and good don't always go hand in hand. Simple done well has a quality too. Laser shows are what the VR community calls Visual Music. Most of the people who have written about Visual Music or Lumia get the analogy wrong. They talk about painting with light, but what it's about is dancing with light.

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Ooooo..."dancing with light"...I LIKE that!!!

Thanks Doug! But it's a really old thread ;-)