Retarded Smiley :D

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Originally Posted by carmangary

4 & 5 aren't extensions in the way that 2 & 3 are but I wouldn't go so far as to call them a different file format. It isn't like you have to totally rewrite code to read them. You only have to slightly change existing code. (We're talking only a few lines of code). So, for that reason, I would say they are very much extensions of the current formats. The only real difference being that 0 & 1 have an index for a color while 4 & 5 explicitly define the color. 0 & 1 seem like a natural thing to do when you have only a small fixed number of colors that can be used. 4 & 5 seem natural when the colors are expected to be unique and within a very large range. 3 doesn't seem natural at all. I consider it nothing more than a hack and based on it never coming to light I think others felt that way as well.

I'll give you credit in that your idea of using a combination of formats 3, 2 & 0 or 1 to be able to specify frames with > 256 colors while still being backwards compatible is clever. But, it's a bloated approach and not likely to actually work since the legacy apps that were written before format 3 will more than likely not handle format 3 and not load the files at all. I know a well written app should skip unrecognized format headers but I am not even entirely certain that will work with format 3 because if the color bytes happened to spell "ILDA" then the software could be fooled into thinking it was at the beginning of a frame.

Format 3 was fixed when they decided it wasn't going to be a format.

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Once again, I'd like to thank you for some intelligent conversation about this matter.

SERIOUSLY! :D

It is absolutely NOT FAIR to judge format 3 based on the way it was busted by ILDA. That makes no sense. Of course a developer would have a hard time seeing its value, interaction and coexistence with the previously existing formats.

I believe that was the very reason why it was ruined.

If Matt P. had not flatly rejected the very existence of LaserBoy, he would have seen the merits of a properly implemented format 3 and how it works seamlessly with the other formats 0, 1 & 2. He could have seen this well before ANY 24-bit standard had been submitted as a public proposal. I'm sure it would not have mattered to him anyway. He was just the stooge in the chair.

If all of the benefits of a proper format 3 had been explored and understood by the tech committee, there would be NO 4 & 5!

Format 3 does NOT bloat a file. It makes it more flexible and in many cases SMALLER than 4 & 5.

James. :)

BTW, Do you do realize that the odds of finding { "ILDA" 0 0 0 (0 ,1, 2 or 3) } in a file are 4 out of 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 ?

That number is eighteen-and-a-half-quintillion ~ all the things you can count with a 64-bit unsigned integer.

Math is logic. Which imples math that works is true.

You can't lie with math and get away with it.

Look at the whole issue that way. :D

Why should I be arguing to have the format 3 header changed back to match the other three?

Is there any logic in that question?

James. :)

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Originally Posted by Zoof

Hey, this thread is about a retarded smiley, not a retarded format :p

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Pretty damn funny, coming from the guy that started this thread...:D

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Originally Posted by James Lehman

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WHY?

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James. :)

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DUDE!

That was the first show I ever saw Buffo do, when he worked a gig with Dream Beams in Charlotte!! :D
The one with Robochick rising up from the floor!

Now THERE is a laser graphic display file for you!!

Cool!! :cool:

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Originally Posted by James Lehman

Math is logic. Which imples math that works is true.

You can't lie with math and get away with it.

Look at the whole issue that way. :D

Why should I be arguing to have the format 3 header changed back to match the other three?

Is there any logic in that question?

James. :)

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All I know is that your post did not logically follow anything we were talking about.

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Originally Posted by carmangary

All I know is that your post did not logically follow anything we were talking about.

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Repeating trend .....

It's really the same question as WHY? :D

WHY are we having this conversation?

WHY would I make the claims that I have made, if I was not totally confident that history and math tell the truth?

WHY should I need to argue that using exactly the same data structure to contain exactly the same kind of data is the right thing to do?

WHY was format 3 header changed?

James. :)

WHY does it matter?

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Originally Posted by carmangary

WHY does it matter?

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That's an excellent question.

James. :)

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Originally Posted by carmangary

WHY does it matter?

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Originally Posted by James Lehman

That's an excellent question.

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The answer is: IT DOESN'T MATTER. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter 1 bit. I know that hurts you James, and I'm sorry. I know it hurts because you have a lot of personal feelings tied up in this matter, so for you, this is still a raw issue. And I'm not saying this to hurt you. I'm not trying to tear you down here.

I'm saying it because it's the reality that you need to face. The fact is, the rest of the *WORLD* has moved on. Please don't persist in this one man crusade against the world... No good can possibly come of it. (But a considerable amout of ill will can, and already has...)

Format 3 is dead, and this isn't going to change. You can either continue to complain about it here (which will futher alienate you from the very group you seem most enamored with), or you can recognise that it's a loosing battle you are fighting and move on. I know that will be hard for you, as you've clearly attached a lot of emotion to this issue. But you have *got* to let it go. It's counterproductive for you, for the forums, and for the laser community as a whole. There is *no* upside to this issue.

LaserBoy can still do great things for people, regardless of which file format you save the data in. Personally, I'd like to see all this energy directed towards something constructive, instead of this pointless bickering THAT WON'T EVER CHANGE A THING, and will only drive people away from the forums, and away from LaserBoy as well.

I'm truly sorry that you feel slighted over this matter, James. It seems that is your cross to bear, however. None of the people here had anything to do with that; right or wrong, the parties involved have long ago moved on to other things. Furthermore, *everyone* here has agreed that, right or wrong, the current formats are the only standards that should be used. You are not going to change people's minds on that.

So I ask you to face the reality, James. Format 3 is broken. Yes, there may well be an elegant way to fix it. But no one cares. There are alternatives that work. Maybe not as elegantly (or mathematically "perfect") as you'd like, but they *do* work and are cross-platform compatible. Furthermore, everyone else is already using those alternatives. The rest of the world has abandoned format 3. Even Carmangary has talked about removing it from his software because it's not an official standard.

So let's agree that format 3 was (or is) crippled and broken. If you want to claim that it was broken intentionally, so what? It's *still* broken, and no one else uses it. Fixing it is irrlelevent, because everyone else has moved beyond format 3. There's no need to fix it now. The issue of malice can't really be discussed, because the other parties involved are not here. More to the point, *everyone* else is SICK AND TIRED OF THE DISCUSSION. There are alternatives that render the need for format 3 moot.

Please James... Please. Let this go. Move on to other things. There is so much more that could be done. All this arguing is not changing the fact that Format 3 is dead and will stay that way. Channel your energy into something constructive. Please?

Adam