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Thread: Outdoor Show

  1. #21
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    Hi Carlos,

    I personally was with Hugo at mysteryland 2009 at the main stage

    As you can see he "only" had 5W OPSL lasers at the 20.000 people main stage.

    and I can personally tell you it was a impressive and bright enough show,

    He even used Beam attenuation maps to dim the power in the audiance.

    I think there are a several factors in place.

    1. you need to have good smoke (MDG)

    2. OPSL lasers do not drop in power when modulated (like many DPSS)

    3. Because audiance scanning is allowed beams are closer to the audiance so smoke is better controllable than high in the air.

    4. the laser beams are more pointed to the audiance instead of away from the the audiance when audiance scanning is not allowed.


    If you still don't believe Jeroen DVD that 5W OPSL can be enough for a 20.000 people stage I invite you come over to see how we do it.


  2. #22
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    Norty, my original response, contains my equipment suggestions to the OP qustion. Go have a lookie ok?

    Now. The superbowl reference was a response to mr knowitall , Jeroen.
    Do me a favor and read the whole thread before you come barking at me
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  3. #23
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    geeez, I can't even post an opinion here on this board, without some people with a chip on their shoulders talkin crap?
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  4. #24
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    Oh I did, it's been a daily source of amuzement.
    I believe it was you who started the barking, in response to some fairly straightforward comments from Jeroen.
    Bottom line, despite what you say, people can and do perform outdoor shows with 5W, and quite successfully it seems.
    Sure, your opinion is that you need more, but the evidence is compelling against is it not?

  5. #25
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    geeez, I can't even post an opinion here on this board, without some people with a chip on their shoulders talkin crap
    Wow, now look who's looking like they got a chip on their shoulder....


    As the old saying goes 'There's always one.... is it you?'

  6. #26
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    look Norty,, i originally posted my personal opinion, then Jeroen called my opinion Bullshit!

    i posted my opinion on my experiences, and it should have been left at that.
    all jeroen had to do was be polite and post his opinion, and leave it at that,
    this was, the OP can decide for himself , what route to take.

    whats the problem with some a-holes on this board who want to attack or put down , somebody else's opinion, what make you so special ?
    you guys are the last word on all things laser or waht?
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  7. #27
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    Now Carlos, I maybe should not have used the word "bullshit", but I didn't mean it as offending as you take it. I'm sorry for that. But you state

    I wouldn't attempt outdoor, with 5 watts of green.
    For RGB , minimum 25 watts
    for green, minimum 10 watts,
    that's with favorable lighting and smoke / haze conditions
    That sounds to me like you're absolutely convinced no one should even attempt to do outdoor with 5 watts of green. You even include "with favorable lighting and smoke/haze conditions". I've showed you (and MCcarrot did so) that it's absolutely possible to do a VERY good lasershow with "only" 5W green. Indeed, with favorable smoke conditions, exacly as you stated in your post.

  8. #28
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    The traditional US outdoor laser gig is aerial beams against the sky, at least 3 meters up. or graphics or a mix of both. It is done to attract business much like a carbon arc searchlight of old. You need power for that.

    Often the lighting company is contracted differently from the laser company. Since the OP owns a lighting company, he has control and can get away with less power. But usually a US Lighting director will want full power up, or at least 75% brightness from his fixtures, which is why I needed 7 watts of argon for a 2500 seat indoor theatre and was still somewhat washed out until the producer got the LD under control, and that was with a fog machine, the hazer was disallowed by the fire marshal. US Lds are enamoured with white, trying to get them to do complementary colors is a witch (No disrespect ment to the OP , who is a professional trying to grow his business) Also LED walls are now a big factor, and bright...

    And often times public venues are lit like a parking lot, in the name of "Safety", Oh, we'll get sued if we don't have the house lights up... And the houselights are often Halide, with very little tungsten , and often wired so as to come on in clusters of 20, not one by one. So many times you cant fully dim the venue, nor does the venue want to wait 6 minutes for the halide to come back up to restart the game. In that case, being a lighting company has a advantage, you can at least light the facility till the arc lamps come back up.

    Lasers are often seen as competition to lighting in the US. If I had a Euro for every time I've been asked to hook a DMX cord to my controller, ran by someone else, I'd own a Kvant RGB by now.. That request gets turned down BTW, manual control FOREVER... Producers/promotors in the US are very much finance driven, lighting/laser/effects is not seen as a ARTFORM as much as it is overseas.. You have to be the least bidder to get the gig... There is very little respect for the ART.

    I'd love to work in Europe, at least laser is a highly desirable art over there....., and you guys seem to get paid well for it...

    And please remember, we Americans, at least when following the law, almost never get to aim downwards, we are almost always angled upwards to terminate in the top of the theatre above the balcony... Remember 3 meters above the HIGHEST AUD ACCESSABLE POINT IN THE VENUE, unless you can keep the beams 2 meters from horizontal reach
    This means many times the aud sees the underside of the scans with little depth unless your in a tall venue/. The days of doing a large club venue with a 1-2 watt air cooled argon are very much over...

    for Example, I looked at our local outdoor stadium last light, the road approaches and parking lot to it are light towers every 500 ft (150 meters) or less for at least 2500 meters, each light tower is 20 meters or so tall and has between 4 and 6 400-1000 watt HPS lamps on it, and all of them are high cutoff, meaning they have massive spill to the sides and sky. They are ran by the state, so there is No turning them off. I bet America spends 1 Billion a year on unneeded outdoor lighting..

    I'll stand by this:
    2x 3 watts indoors to compete against halide or newer led fixtures and walls. 2 scanheads or one scan head combined gives you flexibility, galvos are cheap.
    2 x 5 ,polarized for combining, for outdoors, where you have little control
    1 x 5 outdoors with complete control.

    Oh and please, the next time I start a phrase with AND, someone bust me for it. :-)

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 02-16-2010 at 12:42.
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  9. #29
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    then Jeroen called my opinion Bullshit!
    Yeah, but he did explain the manner in which he meant it in the original post on page 1. Maybe it didn't translate well, I dunno.
    But you did seem utterly convinced that less than 10W was unacceptable, and (imo) got at Jeroen for suggesting otherwise. So you stirred a response in me.

    For what it's worth, I've seen some outdoors festival stages in the UK done with 2W 532's (Laserworld ones in some cases too!) and they've been good.

  10. #30
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    whatever.

    you guys are so busy attacking my PERSONAL opinion, that you forget the original OP is simply asking for an opinion on OUTDOOR laser show equipment.

    stop and think for a min.....
    this debate has no right answer!
    everybody has their own opinion on what constitutes an impressive outdoor laser show! how about that?

    maybe im just a bit jaded over here,,,, years ago, i remember walking into 2000 capacity indoor niteclubs/ arena's, and seen pairs of spectra physics 171 argon (stage L/R), and never forgoten that laser show! (most impressive).
    I think there is a niteclub in Canada , that uses a spectra physics 174 whitelight,

    ive seen pleny of outdoor shows, and the ones i remember are the ones that used high powered vagina burners ... concerts ... etc.
    yeah, ive seen 2 watt RGB indoors,,,, not impressed, and usually the intelligent lighting with 575 watts each, are what i remember from those shows....

    yeah , ive seen 5 watts of green outdoors, and i still wouldnt do it myself, im not saying you guys on that side of the pond cant pull it off, im just sayin over here,,,,, its usually GO BIG, OR GO HOME ! , with the bigger outdoor events.

    maybe the shows in europe (like mixedgas said) , are more focused on the lasershow, so you have more control of ambient lighting , but around here, its usually the laser just a complement lighting , to LED walls, Video screens, Massive amounts of intelligent lighting heads/ scanners, 3000 watt strobe lights,,, etc ,,, etc......


    I might be small potatoes to you laser gods over there, but ive been around lasers for over a decade now... and know what impresses me,,, and what is subpar....
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