Calling all North Carolina laser people

[ssc0530]

I am about an hour outside of charlotte and have an art project where i would need a 400mW laser projector built compliant so it will test easy for a variance. all this by october and a program like ilda's software. I need galvos capable of allowing a flat beam, liquid sky technique in green diode. 400mW plus wanted. need to know if this will be more than 1000 or 2000 and if there are affordable renting options where i could still be in control of the laser for the demo and just have a variance for that laser im rented? still shaky on the rules but theoretcially if i had a license for that model laser which already tests positive then me renting one and still having a variance for it shouldnt make the diff.

[dream beamz]

I am about an hour outside of charlotte and have an art project where i would need a 400mW laser projector built compliant so it will test easy for a variance. all this by october and a program like ilda's software. I need galvos capable of allowing a flat beam, liquid sky technique in green diode. 400mW plus wanted. need to know if this will be more than 1000 or 2000 and if there are affordable renting options where i could still be in control of the laser for the demo and just have a variance for that laser im rented? still shaky on the rules but theoretcially if i had a license for that model laser which already tests positive then me renting one and still having a variance for it shouldnt make the diff.

I already offered (when i was not busy with work) to meet up with you and help you for free. That went virtually unanswered. Check with haveunlocked or MechEng3 as I am too busy to help for the next couple of months

[MechEng3]

I would pick up a FB-3 package for software if you don't have any way to control the laser. I would look for a laser from several vendors here on the forum...also scanner sets here too. You could build the cabinet and apply for the paperwork...much studying and time needed here in planning. Otherwise you may have to spend a lot more $ on a ready made setup. If you go for a bigdipper style of laser...I would plan on going through it to set everything up and add into it what is needed as far as safety concerns. I would be able to offer to help if you will let me know where you are as far as ability to solder and align laser setups....basicly we need more information. Search the BST area also.....

[ssc0530]

yeah I don't know how to do the building however I have soldered before, it is rather easy -- but I am completely new and just want a laser an an aesthetic, not looking to involve myself in anything other than purchasing a system capable of starting in a single intense beam fanning out to a wide angle liquid sky fan with individual spokes (not a single flat plane), which will have the intensity to light up a room that holds about 50-70 people at a time. All with a system (software or dmx board) thru which to run the machine. over the top is not scaring me just the price so the most mWs for the $$, if I had someone local it would not be bad to visit and discuss it all with that person. dream beams you have a good offer but too much for me in afraid plus i shouldn't settle on the first guy who offers me something without comparing. At the time i was also busy and said i would contact when it got nearer the show. the show is now pushed back to October thru December time range instead of May, so i have about a year to figure it out. I do want to be in control --and training for that is feasible, as well as a variance. my icon depicts the type of laser effect i want not exactly the intensity i want as that system is well over a watt... meaning a 5 digit cost. but yeah renting a system that powerful i would think wouldn't have to be that expensive as long as I'm certified to operate and return it the day after the event (one night's use). However i would purchase a system that had 400mW plus if i knew i could get one for under 2000 for i don't have a lot of money and to the people i know, spending that kind of money on a laser is foolish-- but i seemingly have no chance of pulling of the effect, but i don't want to compromise so i will try to earn the money. I dont need to be ripped off since the parts are relatively cheap given the 400 mW laser (green diode) is about 500+ $ alone... its like ipods if you pay for the materials it takes to make (as we should) it would cost like 25$ or less. i just need help mucho form you guys. I would build it but im an artist in the middle of creating about 5 different projects (this one just contains a laser). so for this one exception i need an outside source to make sure my specifications are met for me. not me becoming an electrician over night or anything like that. It is only for a night here as it is a 'happening piece' almost like performance art as in it happens once and only once in that moment shared with friends and comrads. I would buy the system for two reason though renting a system for 800 $ to use it one night is like paying almost half for the the actual system just to possess it for a day or two... makes little sense. but yeah i like the effect and would reduce it to a party favor if i owned the 400mW system in which it would be used privately (no need for variance after show)

sorry for the rambling, but no i would love to set up something as long as it could be close to my feasible managing.

[buffo]

if I had someone local it would not be bad to visit and discuss it

Then why didn't you at least contact Dream Beamz and discuss it with him? He's in the business of doing shows for crying out loud. He's also a respected member of the forums here. Listen to what he has to say. He can offer you sound advice, even if you decide not to use his company for the event.

dream beams you have a good offer but too much for me in afraid plus i shouldn't settle on the first guy who offers me something without comparing.

At the price point you're talking about you're lucky you got anyone to respond. You see, there's no real money to be made doing small shows like what you propose. Your options are to build something yourself (and get it varianced yourself before the show), or find a company willing to take on such a small show. Considering your location, Dream Beamz is not only a perfect fit, but probably the *only* company that would even be interested in the gig for a 600 mile radius.

I do want to be in control --and training for that is feasible, as well as a variance.

Wait - you admit that you don't know anything about lasers, projectors, or the variance process, and yet you think all of this is feasible? That's a pretty big assumption, don't you think?

However, I agree that is *is* possible, if only just barely. You're really need to get moving fast if you expect to get everything accomplished before October...

I just need help mucho form you guys.

Well, if I were you, I'd start by talking to George. He's offered to help, and you haven't taken him up on his offer yet. (Hint: Behavior like that does little to convince other people to offer more help.)

I would build it but im an artist in the middle of creating about 5 different projects (this one just contains a laser).

If you can't devote a significant amount of time to this project, then you're better off renting the projector. Seriously. Don't start something you have no hope of finishing on time.

i need an outside source to make sure my specifications are met for me.

The forum can help you with that. So can George.

not me becoming an electrician over night or anything like that.

Then why did you even consider building your own projector? If you're not a tinkerer at heart, why would you undertake such a project?

As a comparison, I'm not a painter. So if I want a painting for my wall, I'll go out and buy one. There's no way I'd go to the crafts store and buy an easel, some oil paints, a stack of brushes, and some canvas and just think: "OK, now I'll paint myself some artwork for my living room..."

You don't need to become an electrician, but you will need to learn basic electrical theory. You'll also need to learn about tuning scanners, aligning optics, and using the laser show software. None of this is particularly challenging, but it does take time and commitment. Most of all, you'll need a reason for doing it. For most of the members here, it's because we really dig lasers and laser light show effects, and we really want to be able to create these effects in our homes. But without that motivation, most of us would never have completed our projectors.

You are setting yourself up for failure if you aren't really interested in the prospect of spending time learning about lasers, projectors, controllers, scanners, and software. In this case, you'd be better off just renting one.

It is only for a night here as it is a 'happening piece' almost like performance art as in it happens once and only once in that moment shared with friends and comrads.

All the more reason to RENT the projector from a professional company rather than building or buying one. If you don't have a passion for lasers, you're not going to be motivated to finish the projector, and even if you buy one, what are you going to do with it after the event? It sounds like you don't care much for lasers, so now what are you going to do with a $2000 laser projector?

Adam

[dream beamz]

Yeh, what Adam said, lol. How does free cost too much for you. I was offering to meet with you, show you all of your options for free. As in no cost, I would have helped you order everything you need and shown you in person how it assembles. Oh well

Well, if I were you, I'd start by talking to George. He's offered to help, and you haven't taken him up on his offer yet. (Hint: Behavior like that does little to convince other people to offer more help.)

The behavior of ignoring my previous offer like I was some piece of crap already swayed me away already and I am declining to offer the help now. On top of being extremely busy for the next couple of months like I already mentioned I just do not see a reason to even begin to offer my assistance to someone who wont reach out to an offer. My previous response was warn people of how a genuine offer went unanswered completely.

To all who do not remember his original posting it was nearly identical to this post. I was even told he would PM me as time drew near which never happened.
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...552#post127552

[ssc0530]

wow, i was nice and everything and i still wind up in these tizzies. okay 1 its annoying when paragraphs are chopped into sentences until you have to bash every word over the persons head that wrote them. yes i know nothing about lasers ... but how much to know about a prebuilt system that only moves horizontally and is kept above head level, after training from the seller and then a variance to make it all legal? like i said i was very nice, you are upset i was able to buy more time that i had by having a small show this may. now its not until october sorry i didnt let you guys in on it as im not thinking each of these in the lounge are life and death... nor big money projects. i wasted peoples time possibly by posting another thread which is my only fault and that was only because i wanted to focalize it to NC people. okay dreambeamz. senior member, knows everything about lasers and i don't, wow when did i question that? oh never i simply did not follow through with is advice as i am testing the field and i seem to have got him upset that i didn't feed his ego. its okay man no ones questioning anything or ignoring you, i'm a small show your right, and i know zilch about lasers, wow easy target to show authority over the subject you seem to be god at. anyways i was nice... just wanted advice and i have extra time now to consider it and i have been keeping up with rbg-gas on PMs, but i forgot i guess i need to sign in everyday of my life and update you two so that i don't get in trouble? no i check notes 3 times a week and consider outside sources. the price thing, well i am learning about low cost ways to pull it off and hey i may tinker and make somethings or i could possibly have it made (which is how ill get it done on time). finding someone who can do that is key not allowing someone who will let me borrow a laser for a day for more that the cost of the diode itself. sure make a business and yes, works for many other who have monster flashy shows--- but my communication or lack there of shouldn't revert you grown men to boys over a hobby.

[dsli_jon]

wow, i was nice and everything and i still wind up in these tizzies. okay 1 its annoying when paragraphs are chopped into sentences until you have to bash every word over the persons head that wrote them. yes i know nothing about lasers ... but how much to know about a prebuilt system that only moves horizontally and is kept above head level, after training from the seller and then a variance to make it all legal? like i said i was very nice, you are upset i was able to buy more time that i had by having a small show this may. now its not until october sorry i didnt let you guys in on it as im not thinking each of these in the lounge are life and death... nor big money projects. i wasted peoples time possibly by posting another thread which is my only fault and that was only because i wanted to focalize it to NC people. okay dreambeamz. senior member, knows everything about lasers and i don't, wow when did i question that? oh never i simply did not follow through with is advice as i am testing the field and i seem to have got him upset that i didn't feed his ego. its okay man no ones questioning anything or ignoring you, i'm a small show your right, and i know zilch about lasers, wow easy target to show authority over the subject you seem to be god at. anyways i was nice... just wanted advice and i have extra time now to consider it and i have been keeping up with rbg-gas on PMs, but i forgot i guess i need to sign in everyday of my life and update you two so that i don't get in trouble? no i check notes 3 times a week and consider outside sources. the price thing, well i am learning about low cost ways to pull it off and hey i may tinker and make somethings or i could possibly have it made (which is how ill get it done on time). finding someone who can do that is key not allowing someone who will let me borrow a laser for a day for more that the cost of the diode itself. sure make a business and yes, works for many other who have monster flashy shows--- but my communication or lack there of shouldn't revert you grown men to boys over a hobby.

...is your last name 'analien' by any chance??? (...JOKE, not on you; on someone else...

But before you go all 'thermal' on DB, there - you might have just simply tried to say 'hey, man - sorry I didn't get back to ya, I was just slammed, etc, etc,' - respect and being responsive will get you a LOT further, help-wise, on this forum, than getting defensive / mocking... "you could learn a lot from a dummy"... (another joke, not on you..

just a thought.
peace..
j

[buffo]

its annoying when paragraphs are chopped into sentences until you have to bash every word over the persons head that wrote them.

That's called multi-quoting, and it's proper internet etiquette. It makes it easy for other people to easily understand what is being discussed. And the white space between paragraphs is there to make it easier for people to keep their place while reading. Your "wall of text" post is much harder to read, and such text-block posts are frowned upon. I'm amazed that you haven't encountered this before. Are you new to on-line forums?

yes i know nothing about lasers ... but how much to know about a prebuilt system that only moves horizontally and is kept above head level, after training from the seller and then a variance to make it all legal?

Lots. That was our point. We were willing to help you learn what you needed to know in order to do this safely. You chose to ignore our help. (Hint: Asking for help and then ignoring people when the help is offered is a sure way to piss people off.)

Filing a laser product report and a variance request is a big deal. Sure, it can be done successfully, even by a hobbyist, but it's by no means a trivial task. For an example, have a look at the guide to filing a laser product report. This 34 page document must be completed in order for you to certify your projector. Also, you'll need to supply supporting documents with the laser product report. (Supporting documents include schematics, block diagrams, pictures, labeling information, user manuals, and so on.)

If you want to know more about the regulations you're dealing with, I suggest you read up on the relevant standards for laser products and laser shows, namely 21 CFR 1040.10 and 21 CFR 1040.11. Your projector would be classed as a "demonstration laser product", by the way.

like i said i was very nice, you are upset i was able to buy more time that i had

Wrong. He's not upset that you had more time. He's upset that he offered to help you for free and you blew him off. Then you came back here asking for more help, and George (rightfully) called you out on it. As dsli-jon mentioned above, had you simply said something to the effect of, 'Gee, sorry that I didn't get back to you... I was really busy, but I've got some time now, let's get together and chat...' then everything would have been just fine. That's what most people would consider being "nice"...

im not thinking each of these in the lounge are life and death.

The location of your post in the forum list is irrelevant. Lasers may not be "life and death", but they *are* taken very seriously by the group here. We have members who make their living doing shows, and you can bet your last dollar that they are quite wary of unvarianced operators doing illegal shows. Because in this country, it only takes a few people doing something stupid to ruin it for everyone. It almost happened back in 1994 in Las Vegas, and only the intervention of the International Laser Display Association prevented an outright ban on all outdoor laser shows. (And for the record, we're getting close to that point again now, what with all the news frenzy surrounding green laser pointers and police helicopters.)

I'm not saying that you were actually planning anything stupid, mind you. I'm just explaining why we take safety so seriously. We all enjoy our hobby (or or livelihood, as the case may be), and we want to be sure that we can continue to enjoy it for a long time to come. So when we get some indication that a new member might not be taking safety seriously, then yeah, we tend to get riled up a bit. In your specific case, it was the fact that a knowledgeable member had offered to help you, and you seemed disinterested in listening.

It is unfortunate that things have started off this way. Because if you stick around, you'll find that we are actually an enormously social group, and most members will bend over backwards to assist new people. It's not uncommon for a senior member to spend an entire weekend working with someone new to get them up to speed. Hell, a few years ago one of the members here offered to re-wire my entire projector after I couldn't track down a floating ground problem I had. I'll bet it took him a good 20 hours of work to get it done, and he didn't charge me a dime. I've also seen people sell or trade hardware back and forth to help people out when they're in a jam, all for prices *way* less then market value.

But in the future, if someone offers assistance and you are disinclined to accept it for whatever reason, at least acknowledge their offer and tell them why you prefer to wait. That's not "feeding their ego", it's just being polite. Also, sometimes you will receive an answer to a question that may be uncomfortable, since it will imply that your plans will need to be changed. In those cases, remember that we're here to help you, not hurt you. We don't try to crush the dreams of new members. But there are limits on what you can do.

For example, my suggestion that you rent the projector was not because I want to shill for Dream Beamz. Rather, it was because you stated that you had several other projects underway right now. That tells me you may not have enough time to finish your own laser projector and file all the paperwork for a variance in time for the show in October. (It takes a good 4 months to hear back from the CDRH, remember.)

Also, I didn't hear you mention any real passion for lasers in your posts. And believe me, passion is required if you're going to build your own rig. Because that's the only think that will keep you going when you run into a problem and start thinking that maybe you should just give up.

Finally, you never did answer my question: What are you going to do with the projector after you're done with the event?

i have been keeping up with rbg-gas on PMs

Jeff and George are partners. You knew that, right? They both live in NC. The third member of the team (Johnathan) lives in DC.

As for keeping in touch via PM, that's fine. But your request for assistance was not via PM, it was here in the public forum. A short post to the effect of "thanks everyone, but I'm in contact with rgb-gas now via PM, and he's answering my questions" would have done a lot to eliminate all this drama.

I am learning about low cost ways to pull it off and hey i may tinker and make somethings or i could possibly have it made (which is how ill get it done on time).

This is where you run the risk of being illegal, and incurring the wrath not only of the CDRH, but of all the legal show operators here. You have freely admitted that you know almost nothing about lasers, yet in the same post you imply that you are savvy enough to "tinker and make something" because you are learning about "low cost ways to pull it off". This is exactly the attitude that gets people into trouble, which is why we take such a hard line on safety. A little bit of knowledge is a *dangerous* thing.

We can show you the most economical way to do things, but usually the cheap solution requires a lot of work on the part of the laserist. And if you don't have the time and knowledge to complete that work, then we have a problem. Because it's easy enough to cheat. And that is what we're trying to prevent. On the other hand, a more expensive solution saves you a lot of work, and also ensures safety. So if you're man enough to admit that you don't have the time, then the more expensive solution is the way to go.

finding someone who can do that (have it made) is key not allowing someone who will let me borrow a laser for a day for more that the cost of the diode itself.

The reason a commercial show costs so much is because of all the work that goes into making a certified projector. As I said, you *can* do it yourself, but it's tedious and time consuming. And there's no guarantee that you'll get your answer from the CDRH in time for your show (unless you file in the next couple months, that is). Hiring someone to build your projector only solves half the problem. You still need to get an accession number and a variance.

but my communication or lack there of shouldn't revert you grown men to boys over a hobby.

Then maybe you need to rethink your communication skills. Because we're not "boys" here. We're responsible adults who take our hobby (and in many cases, our livelihood) seriously. If you can't understand that, then you are the one being immature.

Adam

[ssc0530]

the thread came first and i got someone on PM's, its cool if they are partners but i could care less just getting things done and leaving it all at that. I trust rgb-gas will not allow the project to be illegal so i have no concerns, yes i am new to blogging and forums and things like that. I hate keeping up with computers other than operating programs. but like i said before i complete this project and i'm done with this all so its cool, i don't hold grudges and neither should you. too busy for that.