Pat's MicroMount Review!! - microlaserlabs.com

[edison]

If milling is where your passion and hobby please go ahead. Its not my passion, i like designing and building modules ( especially when the beam is supertight ) and send the designs to a local metalshop. I do this to keep them in bussiness and also to get the quallity and finish that companies like others deman in the market. I refuse to support someone that is doing milling next to his regular job or go to china because that will result in that someone else is loosing his payed job and can,t support his family any longer. I could invest in machinery and learn to do milling myself just like electronics.But when i write the code and do hands on milling that i have even less time of doing what is needed to keep the bussiness going.

I,m a strong supporter of doing things in your own country. Second, selling parts is not profitable unless you do things in big quantity or find that market that is willing to pay the profit that is needed to keep the bussiness going.

Pat knows that he can do things in china but he didn,t want to go this route and that says something about him. No one is perfect and i know i aint but if you are doing bussiness going for cheap is a choice. For private people that are doing lasershows for a hobby there is no choice since the next door neighbour is willing to go lower in price to get the laserjob. He needs to get his parts/projectors cheaper so there is less money to spend on a good part or a projector. The low end market up till 5 watt is in the hands of schoolguys that buy chinaboxes and go as low as possible to make a buck. They can do it because there is no licenses yet. I hope they will be there sooner then later so we get serious players in the market that do things professionally and are able to invest in good equipment. Its also good for the safety of the crowd.


Make a choice, pay 30usd and get a good mount or buy from a hobbyist or china. Plain and simple

[andy_con]

edison im unclear on what makes you hobby and what makes you pro, could you explain?

you, me, pat and others design and make stuff at home so are we hobby? and then the likes of kvant, RGB, goldstar etc... who make and sell lots of gear pro?

or is there more to it than that?

[norty303]

Make a choice, pay 30usd and get a good mount or buy from a hobbyist or china. Plain and simple

I don't understand this. Pay 30USD and get a good mount, or go to China and get a good but cheaper mount is what you meant, right?
Or did you choose to disregard the part of the discussion about China quality?

[logsquared]

I don't know edison. I have my own mills and lathes like andy-con. I like doing it for fun. I like designing, trying new things, electronics, optics, you name it. I don't think the things we make are any less quality than from a large machine shop. I can walk down the street and get my parts anodized, sure. But, I don't see the need for that on most of the things I build.

I don't see the harm in trading with our friends here on the board and other places.

Also, to further what andy_con was saying. Arctos, Kvant, and many others have in-house CNC. This is for efficiency. And even if they don't CNC all parts, you can bet they have hand mills and such for R n D.

[edison]

@ masterPJ

I,m not willing to support china or andy-con since i prefer to support companies in my own country. My neighbour that works at the local metalshop also needs to eat.......

In the past 3 years you are saying that i do some great modules but you haven,t bought one or even asked what i can do. The reason is simple, Eightonlight can do things cheaper so you rather from them then supporting your own neighbour. If i was cheaper then china you would buy from me. Its simple economics.
Don,t get me wrong i.m totally cool with that. Its a choice. I keep the manufacturing in my own country and if i can,t i stop doing what i do. Buy an arctos instead if they are willing to help you when i,m not arround anymore ....

[andy_con]

norty is fully on board and understands whats being discussed here, if you design a quality mirror mount and get china to machine it, its still a quality mirror mount no mater where its made. its just cheaper getting it done in china.

you get that right and understand edison?


also logsquared is also bang on with everything he has said there.

kvant, arctos both own and do a lot of their own machining. im pretty sure even RGB own datron cnc stuff so again they do their own stuff. again you understand why right edison?

[planters]

I introduced the fact that China is the world's number one economy. This wasn't meant as a put down to China, but as a warning/ heads up. When my son visited China last summer he met a young girl on the tour and has kept up an online conversation with her since then. Her school day begins at 7 AM and never finishes before 6 PM and often later, 6 days per week. Her classmates were polite, dressed in uniforms and were excited to practice their impressive English skills on the western visitors. Violent crime is rare even though "free market petty fraud" is very common. At the same time there are vast numbers of very poor people available to populate a low cost workforce. It is these poor that westerners often cite as the resource that threaten western workers and western economies. But, it is that girl and more than a hundred million like her that pose the real competition. The culture is primed to compete successfully with the west and I believe will dominate the world economy in the near future. I believe you will fail if you try to cut them out. You will do better to try to work with them.

[edison]

I don't know edison. I have my own mills and lathes like andy-con. I like doing it for fun. I like designing, trying new things, electronics, optics, you name it. I don't think the things we make are any less quality than from a large machine shop. I can walk down the street and get my parts anodized, sure. But, I don't see the need for that on most of the things I build.

I don't see the harm in trading with our friends here on the board and other places.

Also, to further what andy_con was saying. Arctos, Kvant, and many others have in-house CNC. This is for efficiency. And even if they don't CNC all parts, you can bet they have hand mills and such for R n D.

With the right machines you can have the same quallity as a large metalshop. A good finish is what the laserindustry demands since all others do the same but when you trade with some other guys in the hobbyworld that are doing things for fun of course you should do it!! Nothing wrong with skratching eachothers backs

edison im unclear on what makes you hobby and what makes you pro, could you explain?

you, me, pat and others design and make stuff at home so are we hobby? and then the likes of kvant, RGB, goldstar etc... who make and sell lots of gear pro?

or is there more to it than that?

A professional to me is someone who is doing things for a living. Someone that has the right machinery can do the same quallity in his spare time no doubt about that but if he is not making a living out of it its still some kind of hobby. Doing thins for a hobby is not a negative thing in fact doing things commercially has a negative downside to it that i don,t like but that is another discussion.
Once you start selling things commercially and make a living out of it everything has to be taken in account. Desigining, manufacturing, and all other things have to be taken calculated and for 5-8usd fior a mount you can,t make a living out of it. That is the main difference.

I don't understand this. Pay 30USD and get a good mount, or go to China and get a good but cheaper mount is what you meant, right?
Or did you choose to disregard the part of the discussion about China quality?

I mean you can choose for a 30usd good quallity mount that is manufactured locally wich you indirectly support your neighbour that is working at the metalshop or go for the cheaper way and support a hobbyist or go to china. Its a choice, buy a locally manufactured product or go the cheapest way......

[masterpj]

@ masterPJ

I,m not willing to support china or andy-con since i prefer to support companies in my own country. My neighbour that works at the local metalshop also needs to eat.......

But keeping the circle going inside of your own country makes no sense really.. you might support your neighbour chargings outrageous pricings for your R&D cnc work..
The gesture is nice but what if he then would buy parts from china or products from china.. effectively transferring your money you spend indirectly to china.. Kinda ruining the point and making life for you more difficult by driving up your cost.

Part of your tax money goes to supporting other countries in the european union too..more money out of the window. I think you should think less about "The Netherlands" but more towards the continent as a whole.. If everyone keeps the attitude of trying to buy local as a max then the economy would be in a pretty bad spot..especially when the world is getting smaller and smaller with the revolution of the internet and the net internet young generation that will eventually be the majority of the working force..Their country pride is a lot smaller because they are more involved globally.. meeting friends abroad.. etc.

Andy is passionate about milling just like you are with designing modules.. support that thought just like you want to be supported by also using their passion combined to make what is a great product at great cost made with pure passion in every stage! I could talk for hours about laser graphics.. you could talk for hours on the phone about the designing process and I'm pretty sure Andy can call me a twat and then tell me for a long time about the process of milling .

I help people too by sharing guides or explaining them how to do things on facebook or on skype to make better art rather then clinging just on to stockframes and not willing to explore to offer more and possibly also get more responsiblity for what they display... a different kind of help but it is help!

@ masterPJ

In the past 3 years you are saying that i do some great modules but you haven,t bought one or even asked what i can do. The reason is simple, Eightonlight can do things cheaper so you rather from them then supporting your own neighbour. If i was cheaper then china you would buy from me. Its simple economics.
Don,t get me wrong i.m totally cool with that. Its a choice. I keep the manufacturing in my own country and if i can,t i stop doing what i do. Buy an arctos instead if they are willing to help you when i,m not arround anymore ....

I do think you make great stuff. I have never bought from EightonLight.. I have only ever bought a module from laserwave which is 2x 532nm VS-OEM and I'm not ashamed of that.. it's a good product and they also sold me KTP crystals a few times that I was able to use for my own experiments. I bought a red kit from dave to try and make my own module for educational purposes.. I'm young and eager to learn to understand properly what I work with to improve as a whole.

My main core of my bussiness is selling content and not actually doing the majority of lasershows.. especially not the quick packing and leave lasershows You should know this by now.
The majority of my clients are in the United states and I also have a big client in Poland who doesn't hesitate to fly me over for work...Though I'm studying fulltime again too as part of investing my time in developing to improve even more quality wise!

To me these days "made in this or that country" says very little compared to "Has this.. acomplished that".. and by who it's made!
I like passion.. passion sells and passion reflects on the quality of your products in just about every stage. You have the set a clear foot what seperates your products from the others.. not just using china constantly to put the blame on.. They do some produce some really great products and it makes the competitive side very hard.... or does it? In what way are you trying to compete?

I believe you will fail if you try to cut them out. You will do better to try to work with them.

Taking the words out of my mouth.. I believe in this too.
In fact I notice a growing trend of china also providing work!
Though I couldn't go last time some chinese factories want show programming for demonstrating their products. You want to trigger them to spend on you as they would do for you as well.

[andy_con]

Edison heres my take on things.

i couldnt give a shit about professional companies or hobbyist. just cos its a professional company doesnt mean it makes good stuff that i want to buy. there are many professional chinese companies making lasers stuff doesnt mean they are any good.

if a hobby person makes something of good quality and it does the job perfect then ill buy from him.

its interesting that you will only buy stuff from what you describe as a "professional company", you really must be doing your self out of money.

so are you saying people who do things for a hobby when selling stuff dont take into account designing and manufacturing? they just give things away for free?
you seem to have very odd views on life