A plea for safety, pl edition.

[dsli_jon]

Sir Norty -

@dsli_jon - How on earth do you manage to consistently type posts with just so much sodding punctuation!!?

... 'DATZ ITALYAN!!!

...yeah, sorry, m8... I forget that you really can't type like you talk... hey - what can I say, other than ...'DATZ A-SPICEY AMEATABALL!!! ...I'll try and 'tone it down a bit'... oops...

@ JohnYaya - AHEM - what's the matter, 'ceiling-cat got your tongue'?

So, what is it, exactly, you propose - to simply 'let the beams fall where they may', and que sera, sera? You don't think it is a 'noble endeavour' / at a minimum: CYA, to at least 'sell responsibly' / encourage 'verification' of a buyers' experience-base for 24 Watts of visible laser light? Ok, even, 1W?

..chirp chirp chirp chirp...
j

[300EVIL]

Sir Norty -



... 'DATZ ITALYAN!!!

...yeah, sorry, m8... I forget that you really can't type like you talk... hey - what can I say, other than ...'DATZ A-SPICEY AMEATABALL!!! ...I'll try and 'tone it down a bit'... oops...

LOL! Same here, I'm kind of a punctuation whore myself... It' gets addicting when you want to type how you talk. Keep it up Jon, I dig!

Here are some freebies for ya... ,';.,.';..';.,.';,.';,'.;.',;.,';.,'.;,'.;,'.;,'.. ',.;,.;.,;,;';,',;.,..,.,.'.;,'.;,.',;.',.;,.';.'. ;,'.;,'.,;..;,.,.;,.,';..',.,'.;,.;,'.;,';.,';.',; .,'',.;,';.',.;,;.;,'.;,';..;,';.

[White-Light]

@White-Light, I think most of the objections here on PL are of the "Having such easy access to such cheap, powerful, and easily accessable diodes could put the industry in danger if put in the hands of irresponsible people." It has nothing to do with profitability, most here don't build projectors professionally;

Actually one of the objectors to cheap 445 availability contacted me privately and told me that several members of this forum had already lodged a formal complaint with Casio about the low price of these diodes as well as their ease of removal because they fear it will take business away from them (unsure as to whether that is blue sales or display bookings).

I understand that Casio has been approached and asked to make the diodes more expensive and harder to remove.

Please don't ask me further details as I won't divulge where the info came from either publically or privately.

I don't think there is any reason for remorse or explanation.

• Was this dangerous? NO
• Was this illegal? NO
• Was this reckless? NO

Just because some people over at LPF want to find an error in a silly video because it makes them feel better about themselves doesn't mean we are in any way in error. What do you do with a laser pen? Show it off to your friends because you are cool? God forbid if you don't have OD1000 laser goggles to go around. Give me a fucking break.

Life is full of chances, Every time you get in a car you are challenging death. When I go to the shooting range, everyone is NOT dressed in body armor. We merely respect the fact that firearms are dangerous and don't haphazardly point them at people.

As far as I know, we have had ZERO eye injuries at ANY of the LEM's and I aim,,, (no pun intended) to keep it that way.

If SOME people on LPF want to get all PMS'ey about a video, let them. Who gives a shit.

So sayith the editor and poster of said video...
Adam

Well said Adam.

Laser safety has to be taken seriously but there's a big difference between a LEM at which privately invited people take calculated risks to someone walking the street or in a club and pointing a slow moving pencil beam around randomly. Thats not an attack on pointers but mearly a statement of the differences.

Also, my experience at UK LEM's is that new members are watched carefully. Theres no doubt at times MPE is exceeded by a small amount, but everyone knows and accepts the risks and amounts are still controlled.

I also mean no offence when I say this, but I think some of the State Side Users really worry far too much about a little beam exposure from fast moving projector beams, probably because your laws don't allow it and you're not used to it.

Exposure is safe within prescribed levels. Exposure can be safe outside of prescribed levels simply because the safety margins are so large although I stress this is no excuse for doing public shows that exceed safety levels.

However, there is a very big difference in safety between a projector where beams are scanning fast and a concentrated pencil beam moved only by hand.

[norty303]

Please don't ask me further details as I won't divulge where the info came from either publically or privately.

Doesn't take too much guessing....

I bet this 'development' is a real kick in the knackers for some people.

If there's one thing I've learned since joining this forum, its 'agendas'. Seriously, the backbiting, backstabbing and general infighting is unbelievable, but it carries a happy facade mostly.

'Control' is a key word I think....

[White-Light]

Hypocrite much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzFe32Omy44

... and your point is? No real helicopters were targetted only an RC toy. No beams were shone at the eyes of real people.

I don't see anything hypocritical especially when at the end it makes clear that in no way should this be done towards real aircraft. There is such a thing as harmless fun and in the confines of a private building against an inaminate object, thats all this was.

[JohnYayas]

@ JohnYaya - AHEM - what's the matter, 'ceiling-cat got your tongue'?

So, what is it, exactly, you propose - to simply 'let the beams fall where they may', and que sera, sera? You don't think it is a 'noble endeavour' / at a minimum: CYA, to at least 'sell responsibly' / encourage 'verification' of a buyers' experience-base for 24 Watts of visible laser light? Ok, even, 1W?

I don't feel obligated to respond to 10th grade level conversation. If you want to ask me a question, do it in a professional manner. Not by posting pictures of cats and STFU images. You have certainly not intimidated me intellectually to the point of not feeling comfortable replying to you. Quite the contrary. I typically just don't waste time (as I am now) responding to people like you.

But, if it makes you stop asking... I have not proposed anything other than pointing out that it is ridiculous to even bother talking about regulating these things when no one here is the sole provider of them. It's like trying to regulate Diet Pepsi. I'll just go to the 7-11 if I want one. I don't need to buy one from you. So, go ahead and refuse to sell it to me and see where that gets you. Maybe you will feel a little bit better for making a difference in the world... but the reality is that you won't make a difference at all. In fact, the people who want the diodes will have found an alternative to your regulated selling before they even approach you. To summarize, I am just rolling my eyes at the whole notion of contacting Casio and regulation. I know how that will end up.

Also, I was pointing out that there are plenty instances on here of not practicing what is preached. Everyone loves to point out when someone is doing something that might be wrong on here. Even if it is only potentially bad. It's almost to the point of a new person coming in, stating they have a 500mw scanner, and then having 10 people jump on them and tell them that they need to start thinking about safety and that they need to take a step back and learn from the "experienced people on here." But, I claim that the level of experience on here is imaginary. Doing laser shows in your backyard for your dog does not make you a laser professional. And neither does spending $100 to join ILDA, for which you get nothing but an ILDA email address for a year and access to documentation that really does you no good.

And finally, my comments about LEMs were nothing more than an attempt to of an example of careless behavior. LEMs could be made safe so that even if you want to get a laser in the face it would be hard. Areas with beams could be roped off. Electrical equipmement could be placed more thoughtfully. But instead, people just cram as much as they can in a small space and hope everything goes well and that everyone knows what they are doing. It's like merging in traffic without blinkers or slowing down and hoping that everyone around you lets you in. Part of being a responsible laserists is making damn well sure that what you are doing will not cause harm to others even if some nutjob wants to be harmed.

So, as you see, the cat does not have my tongue. Do you have a picture of a foot in your mouth to show me now?

[dsli_jon]

,';.,.';..';.,.';,.';,'.;.',;.,';.,'.;,'.;,'.;,'.. ',.;,.;.,;,;';,',;.,..,.,.'.;,'.;,.',;.',.;,.';.'. ;,'.;,'.,;..;,.,.;,.,';..',.,'.;,.;,'.;,';.,';.',; .,'',.;,';.',.;,;.;,'.;,';..;,';.

...Wow, Adam! - I didn't know you could speak Klingon!? That's awesome, dude!!

@ Sir Norty -

Doesn't take too much guessing....

Umm, I sincerely hope that you are not implying - and I'm gonna just come right out and say-it - Steve, cause I can tell you - it AIN'T him, leading the 'charge', and, just in-case, it AIN'T me either... (oh boy, there I go again with the caps, again... ...sorry, but there might hafta be a few more...

Steve has nothing but the best interests of ALL of us at heart, and I think that has been amply, amply, amply demonstrated on this forum - and even in his bold, honest, and direct posts, in-here, about this topic. And you know what? He's RIGHT. He doesn't wanna see these things NOT be available, but he DOES voice legitimate concerns.

As has-been every eloquently stated by several (Robert Hess, Aaron (allthat) and others, the 'Pro's' here don't fear 'competition' - it's losing all the ground we've gained with the CDRH to get the Regs up to 2010-reality, and NOT have this wonderful bonanza of finally-affordable blue - which benefits us all, even those in the 'biz' - get recalled / shut-down due-to some bozo that shoots 24 W into airspace...

And like Steve very-clearly, and rightly stated, the more of these that are out there, in the 'general population', the greater the chances some / many will get into the 'wrong hands'.. are those 'hands' the hobbyists / PL-members? Clearly not. Are they ALL the 'LPF" members? Clearly not. But 'it's the bullet you don't hear that kills you', know what I'm sayin? It will be the clueless teen that hacks one and thinks it's 'cool' to shoot all 24 of these at a copter, or passing car on the motorway, or... etc, that makes all the news, and then, we're all buggered..

Can we prevent it? No, of course not.. Can we *possibly* stall / curb it, if ALL 'harvest-resellers' were to simply 'sell responsibly' / know the 'qualification-level' of thier buyers, etc? Wouldn't keeping these on the market for us ALL to 'harvest' - be worth that effort? And - hey - 'along the way', we get the 'message' out about safely using these, etc, to those that don't already-know (which is a lot)...

If there's one thing I've learned since joining this forum, its 'agendas'. ... 'Control' is a key word I think....

Huh, really? And what, exactly was Steve's (just plucking-him out as an 'example' of the 'people' you're implying...) 'agenda' when he spent X-dozen hours walking Sir Jim (smog) thru his Lex-88 problems?

What, exactly, was my 'agenda', when I shared our 'skeeta-scrim' discovery / screen designs / contact-info?

What exactly, is Pats' (laserman532) 'agenda' spending dozens of hours coaching the blokes in the Netherlands, there on thier 168 / 265 issues? (especially when clearly, they're not gonna be buying 'quads' off his site, anytime soon, working with ions, etc..)

Or Rob Stanley, or DMills, or DZ, or Buffo, or - OMG - Heroic?? Who are these 'agenda-pushing control-freaks' to-whom you refer? Please, explain:

HELP is a 'key word', here, I think, thanks very much....

I bet this 'development' is a real kick in the knackers for some people.

Well I tell ya - imo, the only ones for-whom this is a 'kick in the sac', are the ones who clearly have-spent at least a cool-million+ on waaaaay-overpriced (imo) multi-multi-watt commercially-sold systems... sure, they'd see this 'development' as a 'threat'...

So perhaps, such-like Co's out there, are where the 'agendas' / control-efforts and 'calling Casio's are coming from... it aint' from this party...

cheers.
J

[FML]

... and your point is? No real helicopters were targetted only an RC toy. No beams were shone at the eyes of real people.

I don't see anything hypocritical especially when at the end it makes clear that in no way should this be done towards real aircraft. There is such a thing as harmless fun and in the confines of a private building against an inaminate object, thats all this was.

Point is that a lot of you here like to bitch about us on LPF for having pointers, using them recklessly etc. Have a read why don't you? I guess you must have a hard time to understand how that is hypocritical by the content of the video...

[White-Light]

LEMs could be made safe so that even if you want to get a laser in the face it would be hard. Areas with beams could be roped off.

..and why would they want to do that?

..and who says the LEM's are unsafe?

Just because you happen to live in a country where its illegal for that to happen in public display doesn't mean that its unsafe to be exposed to beams. Its just your government chooses to take a cautious line on public displays. Its perfectly legal at a private meeting although officially its to be treated cautiously, I'd go so far as to say its perfectly safe even if the 10xMPE standard is observed. In fact, even if exceeded, its still most likely safe as there is a wide margin for error although obviosuly I wouldn't endorse deliberately exceeding 10xMPE. However the point in any of this is that its a private meeting. Everyone knows the risks and accepts them. You're free to choose not to attend. You're free to keep outside of the beams if do attend. No-one is randomly pointing lasers at you in the street without your knowledge or consent or without your ability to avoid them should you choose to do so.

Point is that a lot of you here like to bitch about us on LPF for having pointers, using them recklessly etc. Have a read why don't you? I guess you must have a hard time to understand how that is hypocritical by the content of the video...

Well there's nothing in the video that was reckless. Maybe there were implications in pointing it at a helicopter but even then there was a disclaimer making it quite clear that this was a bit of fun and that against a real aircraft that wasn't something that should be done. The point is it was a plastic RC helicopter and no pointers were pointed in anyones faces.

Like it or not, the history of your country shows week in and week out people pointing pointers at real life aircraft, police officers and people in clubs and yet you say pointers aren't a problem. I could post dozens of press links, all relating to pointer abuse. Maybe pointers are not a problem for most of you responsible owners but there are a lot of irresponsible ones out there. Try putting your own house in order before bitching over here about projector safety.

[FML]

Like it or not, the history of your country shows week in and week out people pointing pointers at real life aircraft, police officers and people in clubs and yet you say pointers aren't a problem. I could post dozens of press links, all relating to pointer abuse. Maybe pointers are not a problem for most of you responsible owners but there are a lot of irresponsible ones out there. Try putting your own house in order before bitching over here about projector safety.

First, those people who point at aircrafts aren't from LPF, so your argument makes no sense. Also you keep saying how laser pointers in the hands of ANYONE is unsafe because it is so easy to make a slip... so having a small un-lit room full of people from PL shining powerful laser pointers at ONCE is ok.

It blows my mind!