Running the XJ-A140 With Missing Diodes

[kobra000]

i was wondering if you all could take a look at this...it is a 6 degree collimator for Cree XR-E LED'S...might be just the thing we are looking for but im not sure how high in Lumens Cree LED's go for...now if its compatible with the SST-90 or higher i dont know!
http://www.ledlightingsupply.com/Ref...R-E%20LEDs.pdf

just wanted to get some feed back on this

thanks

Keith.

[OzOnE]

Hi,

OK, there's a lot of info here. I'm just trying to take it all in. (makes me realize how much I must type too!). lol

Erm, I'm not sure about the collimation stuff. I went through this same type of research many years ago with the IBM / Infocus LED mod, and it still makes my head spin.

tbh, to make things a lot easier, it would be far better to just use the original Ca$io type heatsinks and lenses (used for the Red Phlatlight).
This should give decent light collection efficiency, as we have to assume that Ca$io did their homework on the optics already.

I suppose the CBM-380 looks an easier solution at first - it is very bright, but it's damned expensive!

The emitting area of the CBM-380 is quite a bit bigger than the original PT-54 though, so you might be loosing a certain amount of the light.

The problem is not just collimation, AFAIK the light source still needs to be below a certain size.
Also, there might be some non-uniformity issues in the projected image because the CBM-380's emitters are offset relative to each other.

The advantage with using separate PT-54's is that you'll only need to add a Green and Blue to the original Red. They will fit the original heatsinks and lenses and should have good efficiency. I don't think it will ever be as bright as the PJ's original ratings (with the laser diodes intact), but it's a much cheaper option to try out.

The problem for me atm is how to drive the LEDs themselves. I'm still pondering how to modify the original driver board to force the LED on, but I'm a bit stuck with other projects. It would be ideal to use some original driver boards since they are quite compact. It might even be possible to cut the boards down to fit the two extra (Green / Blue) boards above the original (Red) one?

One problem is where to physically place the Green and Blue LED heatsinks inside the projector to try to keep the light paths at equal lengths.

Don't worry about sequencing the RGB array, that's the easy part.

When I said I could build you a sequencer, I meant that it could be done cheaply enough that you could have one for the cost of postage. Alternatively, I could just test the design on a cheap Arduino board then supply instructions on which one to buy and how to hook it all up. I'm assuming you're in the US Keith?

tbh, the only real challenge of the sequencer is carefully soldering the three wires to the Ca$io driver board.
Actually, you only need to solder a wire to pin 1 of IC202 like in this image...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...odozone13.jpg/

Then the CIDX and Ground signals can simply be taken from the ribbon connector on the main board.

btw, was your question about the laser diode pinouts? eg...

Pin 7 = Laser Diode Bank 1 Anode
Pin 8 = Laser Diode Bank 1 Anode
Pin 9 = Laser Diode Bank 1 Anode

Pin 10 = Laser Diode Bank 1 Cathode
Pin 11 = Laser Diode Bank 1 Cathode
Pin 12 = Laser Diode Bank 1 Cathode

If so, basically the three anodes are exactly the same signal. The three cathodes are also the same signal.

They connect three signals together on the driver board because there is a fair amount of current going through the thin ribbon cable traces to the diodes. In other words, they use three ribbon traces to make "one" thicker conductor.

The third connection on each diode is normally for the internal feedback photodiode. This signal is often left unconnected on high power diodes because you don't really need to control the diode current as precisely. The photodiode is more often used on low power diodes like in CD / DVD readers and writers where very fine control of the light output is required.

OzOnE.

[kobra000]

Ozone

cool that really puts things into perspective.

ok now i see why they had 3 anodes/cathodes..they are spreading it out and keeping things thin rather than going for thicker stuff to conduct power

"""When I said I could build you a sequencer, I meant that it could be done cheaply enough that you could have one for the cost of postage. Alternatively, I could just test the design on a cheap Arduino board then supply instructions on which one to buy and how to hook it all up. I'm assuming you're in the US Keith?"""


yes i live in the United States.....for the cost of postage??.wow i didnt see that ....yeah im game for it..just show me how it works and the price of postage and all. (is it external to the projector? does it interface with the projector driver board?/power supply?) do you know of a way if directly tapping into the signals that go to the DMD without an external mixer?...was thinking of a more direct route.


i have been talking with a dude on youtube name Dacian aka Electrodacus..whos has lots of projector mods on his channel and led videos a plenty ..a very sharp and smart fellow whos advice has been very much appreciated and invaluable to me (as is all info has been from everyone!")

hes really been laying it down about the collimation problem...through all of his trial and error with many many LEDS and many Lenses hes found that without the collimation being fixed we will never get us anywhere to even 1000 lumens out of the projection lens of this thing (using what leds i dont know really.i guess any..i have 4 or 5 in mind but it seems each one is just another bigger problem then the next..SST-90,50w 470nm 4000lumen Blue planar LED,SST-50,CBM-380 (as if i could afford this one!),CREE XLamp® XM-L LED 16mm Base 1000 Lumens,even some Blue Headlights for cars i have found (t-10 style and others)

here is what Dacian says about the collimation problems its a cut and paste

""""""Ideally you want to get under 6 degree that is ±3 degree most mention this last angle since is smaller.
The 2 to 80 degree lenses are probably as best as you can find and if you use an additional smaller lens closer to LED so that it reduces the angle a bit and the focal distance this is how I've done.
The way you can test how good your lens system is performing is by having the LED and lens project from one meter (3.3ft) from a wall on to the wall and see that you get as much light as possible in a square not larger than 5x5cm (2x2")
Like this
http://greensask.com/projects/LEDpro...A10x10cm-1.jpg
but as you can see I get from one meter a square to large about 10x10cm and in this case about 75% will be lost compared to a 5x5cm square
This is with a 3W LED 1x1mm die and two 22mm lenses but the result was not great this was from my setup with 6 LED that was the reason I used small lenses
http://greensask.com/projects/LEDpro...-50cm6x6-2.jpg
What you will need is a 22 or 28mm lens + another 50mm lens where the 28mm lens is relay close to the LED almost touching the LED and the 50mm in the way that you get a tight spot probably able to get 5x5cm or 6x6cm with that.
Having a luxmeter will help quite a bit in determining how much light you get the eyes are not that good in this regard.
Also during test is better to use low power one or two watt so you do not get blind even with one watt you need to be careful not to watch directly in to the beam.
This was my test setup with the SSC P7 notice that the luxmeter was on the X100 scale so you need to multiply with 100 that is 56900 lux on that small 5x5cm spot and this with 2A about 7W "

Continued

"""""There is no way that you will be able to get close to 2300 lumen with LED's out of the projector.
Not even custom made projectors by large manufacturer are not able to get that with LED not even close.
Yes my projector seems like a easy modification and it is but it was an 800lumen projector converted in a 25 lumen projector that is 32x less and original they had an 120W lamp that was quite efficient at 100lumen/watt and I replaced with a 6.5W LED that was about 80lumen / watt
So from total output of the lamp 12000 lumen they got out of the projector 800 lumen that is 6.6%
And for me out of 520 lumen I got out 25 so only 5% but not that far from 6.6% the manufacturer got.
Now with your projector that has a smaller DLP chip I do not expect you will be able to get out more than 3% of the input lumen so that will be if you can get in there 4000 lumen and collimate correctly about 120 lumen at the output + maybe another 50 lumen from the existing red LED so under 200lumen so you can not expect over 200 lumen in any condition.

If you can use a single channel 28V 1.5A you may be able to use 4 of the same LED's I used CREE MC-E this LED have 4 separate dies that you can connect in any way so you will connect them as two die series and then those in parallel for a total of about 7V voltage drop at 1.5A then get 4 of this LED's connected in series for exactly 28V at 1.5A
then you will need to find 4 set of lenses that will collect as much light as possible ideally close to 40 or 50% and send that to DLP
This LED's will put out about 700 lumen each so you get about 2800 lumen from 4 LED's then maybe if you are lucky get 1400 after the lens and about 100 or so out of projector + Red LED close to 150lumen
I think you can only find this as cool white but that will be close enough to blue probably 80% of the emission will be in blue some green and very little red.
There are some power blue LED at CREE but only 3.5W like the CREE XP-E you can find it in two type of blue.
This XP-E will have a voltage drop of 3.5V at 1A so you need quite a lot of them about 16 and I'm not sure how much space is there but it will be difficult probably better with the MC-E that has 4 of the same die in one LED unit so you only need 4.

The lenses you have will not be good those are optical lenses designed not to distort the image you do need that you need aspheric condenser lens.

I do not know how much space you have there in the projector can you measure the space between the heatsink and mirror or whatever it it in front.

Best regards,
Dacian.

man i tell you,its very dismaying and makes ya wanna give up when every single idea you have is frought with more and more problems...i thought this thing was going to be so easy,pop in a white light or blue light..power it up and bang!....led mods work on other projectors very well..but this one is proven to be a nightmare!

putting like 3-9 of the original laser diodes back in is starting to look better and better.only thing i can power correctly,cool correctly,collimate correctly..anyone got a good price on some Laser diodes?

ugh i need a beer!.this is starting to depress the hell outta me!

ya'll take care.

Keith.

[kobra000]

Hey guys how are yall doing

i just wanted to show you guys this sight surplusshed.com man i cant even begin to tell you all the stuff they have..LENDS A PLENTY!..most are only 4 bucks!..Color wheels for 9 (as opposed to 50+ on you ebay)..gears..just anything you could really want.

im going to get this http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2610.html cause its cheap and right in the ball park.

they have so much man its un real!
I also contacted a manufacturer of lenses in china that says that they have 22mm collimating lens with 2 degree angle of view...(12 bucks plus shipping) but isnt that the proper angle of what we need to collimate the light? no ones every really said what type of angle we need.and im assuming since the DMD is 0.6"..we are going to need it tight.

Oh and i did happen to find this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGaP-ZXFRdE

a 2.5 degree collimator for Avago Moonstone LEDS..which fit planar style leds pretty closely.. but i also think it would fit a SST-90 very well..(or whatever your favorite led is)...at at 2.5 degrees collimation...thats pretty darn tight!

[kobra000]

hey guys quick question

what would you say the "color temp" of the 445nm blue led is?..8000K? or 10,000k? (Iceburg blue or cobalt blue?)

thanks

Keith

[LesioQ]

445nm LEDs are referred to as Royal blue.

Piotr.K

[kobra000]

hmmm i wonder what the equivalent color temp range would be?...1200K starts to get real purple and up from there is just gets darker and darker purple.

[kobra000]

hey you guys i think i found something very very interesting

The Pol po7 2.5 degree reflector collimator for Cree XRE and SST90 LEDS....15.99
http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut859

Luxeon Rebel Royal Blue 447nm LED that produces 910 lumens!!! $7.62 each

http://www.luxeonstar.com/Royal-Blue...-LEDs-s/12.htm

Pros
2.5 degrees of collimation...doubt we are going to get much tighter than that!
small only 30mm..should fit the bulb bay very nicely
affordable
made for a wide range of LED's (perhaps even a planar if it was used in reverse?)

no cons as far as im concerned
447nm Rebel Royal Blue LED

Pros
cheap
powerful!! (910 lumens?? out of something thats only 3mmx4.5mm
runs on low current and voltage 700ma (i think they can go higher)
small,will be a breeze to mount
cool running!
combine 3 for for more Lumens
http://www.luxeonstar.com/Royal-Blue...-LEDs-s/12.htm



finally some good data from my searching..i know what im buying

Keith.

[kobra000]

GUYS i just hit the mother load of collimators! check this out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they got them all for cree,Phlatlight SST-90S just any LED you could think of.
http://www.lednlight.com/index.php?p...recherche=tous
they have hundreds for all the major and not major led manufacutreers
.but i am slightly confused as to what half angle is...is it like it says..half the angle...cause they will show the following

LED Beam optics Half angle (°) 50% Half angle (°) 10% Efficacity Cd/Lm Manufacturer Adhesive
ASMTJx1xN Narrow Ø 16 mm 8.5 17.4 6.4 AVAGO yes
CL-L400 Narrow Ø 16 mm 12 22.8 3.4 CITIZEN yes
Dragon (+) Narrow Ø 16 mm 6.1 12.7 11.7 OSRAM yes
Edixeon K Narrow Ø 16 mm 7.2 15.1 8 EDISON yes


sorry for it looking so crappy i dont think the cut and paste really worked..but if someone could tell me about this half angle stuff id really aprpeciate it....this is the largest manufacture of led collimators i have ever came across

thanks

Keith.


man they even have -1 collimators on here!!...when it says half angle at 50 percent = -1...half angle and 10 percent = -1 dont know what it means but it sounds promising!

[kobra000]

wonderful wonderful run down on the theory and practice of light

http://www.power-sure.com/lumens.htm

here is another sight with lots of lenses and stuff (they even will make custom collimators for you!).
http://www.gaggione.com/specific_cus...limators.xhtml

its the sister site to lednlights.com

Here is a 4 degree led collimator lens for Carclo (never heard of it)...but it looks like it would work on just about any LED with the same size,the sight is in spanish so it has to be translated

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ZHivs867frjEyg


along with cree and just about every other LED out there (except the planar ones they dont carry collimators for them)..they say that this is the best collimator to use with the SST-90 led
http://www.lednlight.com/index.php?p...ST90#recherche

here is the data sheet on it...perhaps you guys can understand it better than i can! its on the family of collimators and not one particular collimator itself.
http://www.lednlight.fr/downloads_ln...n_CREE_XPG.pdf

only thing is i cant deduce the angle..they say its extremely narrow..but the half angle value at 50% and 10% is 9.7 degrees...i have no idea what that means!..9 degrees isnt anything special..im trying to go under 4 so i wont loose to much light to absorption or scatter loss or aberration or what ever it is.

Man why can physics be easy!

Keith.