Pangolin ? laser not perform at maximum

[eyceage]

I'd like to talk about just software for a minute, and not complicate things with further discussions on laser hardware and blanking responses.

It seems to me that the software that comes with the FB3 board liberally throws away potentially useful time-cycles, leaving them blank, causing this dimness problem many people seem to be noticing.

Here's my first point: If I open Draw3D and draw a simple line, that line is only at about 5% brightness (even though the color is full-white). Now if select the line and copy and paste it on top of itself, the brightness doubles. I can continue pasting the line over and over, until I stop noticing any improvement after about 20 pastes. Could someone please explain why it work this way? It seems like a poor design.

2nd point: When I export a frame from Draw3D or a set of frames from ShowRider Designer, then reopen the frames, I can see that individual frames have had the number of blank points increased from 300%-1000%, and entirely blank frames have been added to the sequence, as many as 3 for every frame with points. The end result is that playing back one of these files the brightness is only 5-50% as bright as it appeared in the editor. I don't see any logic behind how much (or why?) blankness is added. I think it's just a bug in the software. All I can say is the the amount frames are dimmed varies. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

Last point: I appreciate that Pangolin's hardware is created scientifically and may well be the best-in-class. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I can't really offer a critique. But I am a software engineer, and after using this software for the past 3 years I'd have to give it about a D rating. There are many bugs, strange behaviors, inconsistencies, and generally bad software design. What little help files are available seem to have been translated from English to Mandarin to Russian then back to English. Can anyone say if these problems exist in Pangolin's higher-end software?

If the intent of the FB3 package is to offer a low-cost "beginner" system in the hopes that its users will one day graduate to more expensive packages, then the folks at Pangolin may want to re-evaluate this strategy - as I believe it is having the opposite effect.

[allthatwhichis]

Can anyone say if these problems exist in Pangolin's higher-end software?

I have not experienced any issues like what you describe with my QM2000 that I have been using for 4 years. I would call and talk with Bill directly about your experiences to see if there is a solutin to your issues.

[Stuka]

I'd like to talk about just software for a minute, and not complicate things with further discussions on laser hardware and blanking responses.

It seems to me that the software that comes with the FB3 board liberally throws away potentially useful time-cycles, leaving them blank, causing this dimness problem many people seem to be noticing.

Here's my first point: If I open Draw3D and draw a simple line, that line is only at about 5% brightness (even though the color is full-white). Now if select the line and copy and paste it on top of itself, the brightness doubles. I can continue pasting the line over and over, until I stop noticing any improvement after about 20 pastes. Could someone please explain why it work this way? It seems like a poor design.

2nd point: When I export a frame from Draw3D or a set of frames from ShowRider Designer, then reopen the frames, I can see that individual frames have had the number of blank points increased from 300%-1000%, and entirely blank frames have been added to the sequence, as many as 3 for every frame with points. The end result is that playing back one of these files the brightness is only 5-50% as bright as it appeared in the editor. I don't see any logic behind how much (or why?) blankness is added. I think it's just a bug in the software. All I can say is the the amount frames are dimmed varies. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

Last point: I appreciate that Pangolin's hardware is created scientifically and may well be the best-in-class. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I can't really offer a critique. But I am a software engineer, and after using this software for the past 3 years I'd have to give it about a D rating. There are many bugs, strange behaviors, inconsistencies, and generally bad software design. What little help files are available seem to have been translated from English to Mandarin to Russian then back to English. Can anyone say if these problems exist in Pangolin's higher-end software?

If the intent of the FB3 package is to offer a low-cost "beginner" system in the hopes that its users will one day graduate to more expensive packages, then the folks at Pangolin may want to re-evaluate this strategy - as I believe it is having the opposite effect.

Which Pangolin software package are you using as the basis for the critique?

If you're referring to the LAStudio suite (which Draw3D is part of), that is a software package that Pangolin bought the rights to years ago, and GIVES AWAY, for free, for any FB3 owner that requests it.
It has basically been unsupported and provided, as is, since it first became available from Pangolin.

Pangolin's current flagship software for the FB3 is QuickShow 2.0 - only a few months old in its current release, and fully supported by Pangolin.
Any specific technical problems with it need to be addressed directly to Pangolin via the "Contact..." link on the web site.
They're usually pretty quick to respond.

As far as complaints about the higher-end software, you might want to go to a LEM and check it out for yourself.
Usually the biggest complaint about the Pangolin LD2000 system is the cost to buy another one...and many of those same users started with, and continue to use, the FB3 along side the LD2000 suite

[White-Light]

This is what you should be running now:

http://www.pangolin.com/_Files/Setup_QS2.exe

You may need to upgrade the firmware in your Fb3 to run it. It will tell you on installation if you need to.

There are also updated versions of Showrider, Traceit, etc to download to go along with QS 2.0 but TBH, they're all but obsolete now, as QS does it all in the one programme.

[norty303]

Before you all chime in with 'oh, its old software, you should be using QS' remember that Draw3D is still the only editor available for FB3 that allows you create frames for use in Livepro, so the issues are still very valid, and in my view Draw3D is part of the 'pro' suite.

However, my recommendation would be to email Bill, Alexey, etc at Pangolin with your findings and see what they say (and post back here )

BTW, if you are using a FB3-QS, then there are still outstanding colour bugs in the LA Studio apps that are waiting to be fixed (or at least they were last week)

TBH, they're all but obsolete now

Tosh

[White-Light]

Tosh

Unless your a Live Pro User wanting to port frames across I see very little reason to use the older apps.

The timeline ie very capable in QS albeit there are some outstanding issues regarding sync that are being addressed and I have some arguments regarding resolution.

I have produced one show that's private for now but which one other member on here has seen a video of that has keyed effects that are advanced to say the least and exceed some similar effects seen on a professional show of similar type. Despite the sync issues the keys are close enough for any difference to be unnoticeable and to make the show viable. I'm being deliberately vague here because I want to keep this show under wraps for some time yet and especially the effects I've used. However what I will say is it uses no less than 14 tracks including 2 effects tracks. I could have added more had I needed to as I had not hit any kind of limitation. What exactly is there in LA Studio that exceeds this?

QuickTrace is a very capable tracing programe and much much easier to use than TraceIt with very good results - I've yet to find anything I couldn't trace in QuickTrace that would Trace in Trace It. Usually it either traces within the adjustment parameters or it doesn't.

The live playback features of QS are second only to Live Pro.

So unless your wanting to draw 3D frames for use in other programs I see very little need to visit the older apps. However, they are there for anyone who needs them.

[eyceage]

As it turns out, there is indeed a software and firmware update available. I'm downloading it now.

I'll update this thread once I've spent some time with it.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

For the record, here's what I had been using:
FB3 Driver - 1.0.0.1
LIVEQ.exe - 2.1 (build 826)
Abstrct.exe - 6.0 (build 730)
Draw3D.exe - 6.0.14 (build 750)
ShRider.exe - 6.0.12 (build 752)

[White-Light]

The biggest update for you from the sounds of it is Quick Show 2.0 (build 308) - follow my link. When you run the .exe it will look at the firmware automatically and tell you what updates are needed.

Its completely different to what you have been using and does most of what all the previous programs can do all in the one program.

The other programs are still available in updated versions just in case there's anything you need, however, if you're not using Live Pro or designing 3D frames I seriously doubt you'll be using them as QS is easy to use but very powerful for a program at its level.

I've not really touched any of the other programs at all since getting QS 2.0 except to do a back to back comparison of QuickTrace and TraceIt.

[norty303]

Also, which FB3 do you own? SE, XE or QS?

[flecom]

someone mentioned a line being dim and then pasting more lines made it brighter... that sounds like a minimum points thing... if you have it set to 500 and have a line with 2 points then the other 498 points will be blank (at least thats how I understand it)