new released 5w 640nm lightning show laser

[edison]

i didn,t know either until Mccarrot pointed me out. I think its not really honest. But most bigger companies aren,t as they grow bigger. Seems to me a laserworld trick

[andythemechanic]

Actually it's more like physics vs. lasershow requirements. When you derive the equations for the beam parameter product, you end up with an equation for the far field divergence angle which is the half angle. Of course for lasershows one is more concerned about the spotsize after some propagation distance, so there you need the full angle. For me it was the other way round: I always asked myself, why the diverengence angles are so big, until somebody told me that in the lasershow area the full angle is the preferably used quantity.
So it has possibly nothing to do with honesty, and Kvant on their own website, don't try to hide that they measure half angle, but always state it. I would wish that every company that sells lasers writes how they measured a quantity in the specs that would be the most honest way.

[mccarrot]

So it has possibly nothing to do with honesty, and Kvant on their own website, don't try to hide that they measure half angle, but always state it. I would wish that every company that sells lasers writes how they measured a quantity in the specs that would be the most honest way.

First, I was not able to find if the full half div. spec on the link Whitelight posted

2nd, I think more than 70% from the people who are buying a laser do not even know what full or half angle divergence is.

[andythemechanic]

First, I was not able to find if the full half div. spec on the link Whitelight posted

Right it is not on the synchrovision website, but on the Kvant website they state it.

2nd, I think more than 70% from the people who are buying a laser do not even know what full or half angle divergence is.

You should probably say, 70% of the people who buy a laser for lasershow applications. It's one of the biggest sources of confusion and misunderstanding that different communities use different definitions for the same quantity. In my opinion the best way to avoid misunderstanding is to clearly state in a spec sheet what is measured. No company I know is doing this properly at the moment. For example the divergence is still not clearly defined if you state half or full angle. It still remains an open question if that angle contains 90% or exp(-1) or exp(-2) of the energy just to mention the most common definitions.

Greetings
Andreas

Edit: Forgot to mention: Actually all Laser beam measurements are at least in Europe standardized under DIN EN 11146, so even better would be that every company measures according to the standard. Possibly this will never happen. ;-)

[Phritzler]

Hello!
I´m sorry - but also if someone has problems with cni, I have to tell you guys something ...
Kvant 5mm 0,8mrad half angle = 5mm 1,6mrad full angle, CNI says 5mm 1,5mrad...
Okay, that is clear.
About the building quality of the modules : I know kvant very good, was often at their company (its only 1 hour drive away from here) and checked what they do...
FACT is the quality isn´t that better than chinses ... why? Becouse they let produce their Millinparts in China, they let produce there electronics in China, they buy the most of the optics in china, they also also asked me why I buy german and Austrian screws and why I don´t do it like they do - buy screws from china becouse its cheaper !
Sorry, but a company like Kvant who even look on the price, and becouse of t hat let the most things produce in China or buy in China is for me not a better quality as other chinese Manufracturer.... and sorry for that, but a "highend projector" like they build with PC powersupplys for OPSL and Jenlas lasers - is a ABSOLUTE NO - GO !
That is my point of it.
-Phil

[edison]

Nowadays more and more companies have their parts made in china. That not new. But when it comes down to being clear of what your selling giving the divergence in half angle in my opinion a No Go. Also to have fancy housings is not important at all.

And for us guys i think 0.8 mrd isn,t that important. Most people can only afford a green chinese laser doing between 1.2 mrd and 1.5 mrd. If the red and blue have the same divergence then its fine. We are getting more and more to a point when we want the best of the best even if its not that nessesary. For people who do quite a number of shows and do that professionally you should have the possibility to afford a projector like Phil sells. When doing proffesionally shows invest in a projector like an RGB systems or one of Phill,s. If doing it for a hobby or trying to setup a laserbussiness at least start with a lower quality projector but not a Laserworld that,s definitively a NO GO

Also buy something from a seller that has good service and is close by. When something is wrong with your projector you can have it swapped the same evening when doing a show

[White-Light]

Hello!

About the building quality of the modules : I know kvant very good, was often at their company (its only 1 hour drive away from here) and checked what they do...
FACT is the quality isn´t that better than chinses ... why? Becouse they let produce their Millinparts in China, they let produce there electronics in China, they buy the most of the optics in china, they also also asked me why I buy german and Austrian screws and why I don´t do it like they do - buy screws from china becouse its cheaper !

Just to make it clear, I didn't say above who was better on price or quality, just that they were the deciding factors in the absence of any difference in beam specs. I leave it to the others to decide on that one!

[gottaluvlasers]

FACT is the quality isn´t that better than chinses ... why? Becouse they let produce their Millinparts in China, they let produce there electronics in China, they buy the most of the optics in china

Sorry, but i am going to have to disagree with this statement to a point.

1- I have sold "chinese" lasers for well over 3 years as you all know. They make a good product. They take "reasonable" care to make an affordable "everyday" type of laser. They are made with the least amount of effort to get the job done. They produce a product that *just* meets or barely exceeds a set minimum standard. that is fine. They are an entry level- mid level Laser module manufacturer.

2- Where the little individual components are manufactured or purchased from makes very little difference. Its the care and expertise used to assemble those parts into a product that exceeds a quality standard. And KVANT does that. I sell Chinese and i sell KVANT. I have taken apart both lasers, i have seen the build process of both lasers, i have seen first hand what the defective areas of the product are. and 99.9% of the time, the defective and sub-par problems of chinese lasers are not due to the optics used, or the resistors used in the elctronics or the screws used. The problems arise from, quite simply- poor engineering, lazy assemblies (glue to hold essentail alignment optics) and alot of times, just plain and simple silly manufacturing processes.

I'll be honest here people, i'll be the first to "eat crow" and say that since becoming a KVANT dealer i have 100% seen the ENORMOUS quality differences between chinese lasers and european lasers. now i am NOT saying that chinese lasers are crap. they still make a decent laser. but comparing "quickly made" and "bare minimum" quality standards of a chinese laser to a well above and beyond product like KVANT is quite a far cry.

it is not the sub components that make the difference (to a point). its how those components are assembled and engineered to make the end product.

if you give me all the components to make some fancy cake and tell me to go bake one, sure- ill get it done. it will taste ok (i hope lol ). But if you give those same components (ingredients) to a baker im sure his cake will be much prettier and taste much better.

There is a market for both cakes. and there is a market for both lasers. someone who just needs a good quick cake to get them through aunt sallies birthday party. then theres a client who needs a professional cake to serve to the president of Google for their 10 year company anniversay (whatever- you see where im going with the analogies! ).

there are customers who need a "decent" laser to get them into the business and to get them to start shooting some laser beams around. then there is a clientele that needs laser systems that are produced with much more professionalism, engineering expertise and commitment to quality to yield a much better end product.

I have used *MANY* lasers from both manufacturers. I have sold *MANY* lasers from both manufacturers. I have seen the manufacturing process of both manufacturers and i have seen the engineering that goes into the products from both manufacturers. TRUST ME.....there are ginormous differences!

-Marc

[flecom]

I didn't know that so maybe I have just been unfair to CNI.

I don't think the angle is quoted on the Syncrovision site, so far as I can see it just quotes it as horizontal / vertical divergence.

EDIT: I just checked on the main Kvant site, it is 1/2 angle so I guess the differences are in price and any difference in build quality: http://www.lasershow.sk/videa/picture/red1.jpg

so do you think the CNI is worth 2x the KVant?

I really dont think so!

to me Chinese companies have the advantage of price over the European/American laser manufacturers... lose that advantage and they lose my money

[White-Light]

No I'm just sitting on the fence and avoiding the quality argument.