View Poll Results: *read below* Should PL host a resource dedicated to safety and certification?

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  • Yes

    18 69.23%
  • No

    8 30.77%
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Results 71 to 79 of 79

Thread: Poll on safety/certification information avilability on PL.

  1. #71
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    Apr 2006
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    I say we all fill out tons of product reports and flood the CDRH until they give up and let us self-regulate lol

  2. #72
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    Apr 2008
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post

    Originally Posted by ElektroFreak:
    You know only what I show you, and everything you see is carefully controlled, and has been since I've been here.

    This is directly contradicted by the following (from the same post):

    Originally Posted by ElektroFreak :
    Otherwise I wouldn't have the ability to be completely open and honest all the time, which is important to me.
    ....

    I used to be scytsofrenic, but we’re OK now

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccarrot View Post
    I used to be scytsofrenic, but we’re OK now

    What's that? You can't spell? Well, let me help you with that:

    http://www.spellingtime.com/

  4. #74
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    Really though, I did give my word. Now that the thread has a decent start, I'll live up to my end.. just keep it going. That way when people come here to learn about this stuff in the interest of dong things right, they don't run into a bunch of egos and bullshit. Just the facts. Then they have no excuse but to do things right.

    Good luck to you all..

    especially you Gary.

  5. #75
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    I think many of you are nothing more than jokes, and here is your opportunity to prove me wrong.
    OK If I am such a joke.....come and walk a mile in my shoes. I will do the same for you. Then we can compare notes and see just what is so sublime and worthless. I think you have been a nice guy , and not so nice. But the issue is when you call me a joke or something to that effect.....well.....it has been terribly long ago since first grade. I would have expected a more professional approach here as it started......but then quickly de-railed in a cavernous , burning wreckage. I say educate yourselves....all the information you need is at your P/C and text documentation available.
    You are the only one that can make your dreams come true....and the only one that can stop them...A.M. Dietrich

  6. #76
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    Jun 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    Hell, I'd be gone already if I hadn't constantly been requested back by popular demand. Each time you spout off, I spout off, until the inevitable conclusion.
    Here's yet one more stretch of the truth from this control freak. I'm the only one who commented favorably in this thread about your being here. Me alone, nowhere near you having "constantly been requested back by popular demand". Me, the Drama King, the ONLY one to question your leaving.

    And now it's "I get to have the last word because "I'm in control". "I'm the puppet master". "I'm being an asshole here only because I want to be and I'm really not one in my really wonderful life that I'm not going to tell you anything about because I'm in control of all of you, who I care nothing about but spend many many hours on this web site alone (not to mention the rest of the internet)." "But did I mention that I'm in control?"

    Yeah, right.
    Last edited by Eidetic; 10-12-2010 at 20:47.

  7. #77
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    Nov 2007
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    ..too bad it took an absolute circus of my analness and your collective ridiculousness to make it happen.
    h, puh-leeeze.....Guess you missed this one from 2007 (...and it didn't 'fall flat', it was simply only updated, when where was something TO update...)
    http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...6317#post36317

    ...it's called "Homework"...you might wanna try it sometime...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    Either we are all interested in public safety and people becoming certified and doing legal shows, or we cannot complain when people are unsafe, and do uncertified shows....Either do something about the problem, or SHUT THE FUCK UP.
    Your whole foundation is fatally flawed. Doesn't matter how much we, here in PL, ILDA, FDA/CDRH, IEC, LMNOP, etc, actually DO to promote / inform / educate - if there is no ENFORCEMENT, there will always be an increase in the proliferation of illegal projectors / ops / shows, etc.

    IE: Right now, in El Salvador, I can't go visit my Wife's family, because the neighborhood has grown too dangerous for ANYone (especially a Gringo) who doesn't already live in the 'colonia' to go there - the 'Mara' (Gangs) seek-out 'newbies' and destroy. They don't ask you twice for all your cash, etc. - if it's not in their hands when they finish counting-down from 30...they simply shoot you in the head.

    1 year ago, this was not so much an 'in your face' problem - I felt no danger (though it was there...) and had no problems visiting the hood, there... Why different, now? Cause most of the Police in that area have either been turned or killed. There is little to no enforcement. And short of sending in the entire Army, to simply kill everyone (which, clearly, would not be a good 'solution') 'fixing the problem' is very, very, very difficult.

    Do you think those people, living in the colonia, don't WANT to see things get better? Of course, but short of starting a war (...and the last time a group of 'locals' tried to collectively resist / 'fight the mara', they trapped them in a Bus and burnt the entire thing down to the tires, with all 15 of them - women / children, etc - all inside... - What can they really do? Sure, you see some shyte going-down, you call 911 - for whatever 'it's worth' - And you do YOUR part to be a law-abiding, productive member of society. But if there is no REAL enforcement, the 'baddies' will just keep slowly multiplying.

    Why am I posting this?? I see a very-relevant parallel to the CDRH-regs issues. There have always been 'illegals'. There always will-be. But the TSUNAMI of illegal projectors and operators / fx, etc has become-that, in recent-years, is because - IMO - there is little to no enforcement. Until they start actually stopping and inspecting shipments, and acting against cases of illegal shows / fx, we can educate all we want - it, in-itself, won't 'fix' the problem. Nonetheless, try, we-DO. The info HAS been out there, and it's NOT that hard to understand / comply.

    ...OR, of course, they relax / nix the Regs - 'legalize the Pot', so to speak, but that's been recently 'lobbied' for, (via ILDA) and it doesn't seem like those Regs / that process, draconian as they are, will be going away, anytime soon...

    So, since we ARE doing all we can (...and the info HAS been public / out-there, in-here, for a LONG time...) - perhaps you should go tell the CDRH how much of a bunch of self-serving idiots they all are, instead of hating on PL'ers, ok, Captain America? And let us know how it goes.

    Please don't come back and do nothing but insult people. Add to the thread / positivity of the community, or, just LEAVE once and for all. K?

    j
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 11-26-2010 at 01:36. Reason: el no vale verga
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    ......ok, ok. Calm down everyone. Debate should always be welcome, but just make sure everyone has their facts straight when doing it and leave emotion and personal shit out of it. Hell, we all have our good days and bad days. As a one of the newer hobbyists, I agree with ElektroFreak as far as having some of our fellow laserists(NOT singling anyone out-just sayin') being ego charged and looking down their nose at some of us who have a different view of what we want to do with lasers..(ie. art)..not that I personally have experienced it, but I have seen it/read it.....we don't want to muscle in to anyone's livelihood, etc....(spelling?). We just want to get our facts clear and not hear any knee-jerk responses and fear-mongering about safetycertification. Just the facts. I respect everyone on PL and you have been invaluable as a resource. But please everyone-JUST CHILL. We are a COMMUNITY , right???

  9. #79
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    Nov 2007
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    SoCal / San Salvador / NY
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    Thumbs down This round, brought to you by the 'Spacelas thread...'

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    I've put in my hours of searching only to find nothing.. now it's up to the other side to support their claims.
    Just because you have given up in your 'search' does not mean the data does not exist. If it costs you $$, to dig deeper, so what? Pro laser Co's don't set those fees, so we're not part of that 'conspiracy'; argue it with RLI and the USAF.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    Once again: If I'm wrong, BLOODY PROVE IT THEN. If these things are "unreported" then clearly there can't be much of a problem. Problems get reported in all other walks of life.. only laser shows are somehow exempt? When people lose hearing at rock concerts, it gets reported. When people OD on drugs it gets reported. So laser shows just magically never get reported? Come on..
    YOU DON'T READ VERY WELL:

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Laser View Post
    Occult eye injuries are never reported and as Steve correctly notes most reported cases are listed as unspecified because there is no direct mechanism for reporting laser related injuries. A little bit of combing through the USAF Adverse Events database will show a dozen or more instances where aircraft or persons have been injured, most temporarily, by laser light show equipment - not pointers - and even more demonstrable and repeatable evidence of macular burns from as little as 10mW of 650nm CW laser with an exposure duration of .25 seconds which is the blink reflex time.

    Moreover, it is well and widely known that the majority of laser injuries which result in thermal burns go unreported because of the same mechanism that the brain uses to fill in the vision gap caused by the cleave of the optic nerve below the macula. The dead spot is simply filled in by the brain and often goes unnoticed until eye exams later in life.

    The data that these events do happen is out there as is the science behind why such events are underreported.
    ...and your 'hearing loss' and 'drug OD' examples are bunk, because BOTH of those types of damage have far-easier impact-results to 'see', and more immediately-measurable presentation of symptoms.

    I OPIN, that, despite the published studies otherwise, we can't REALLY KNOW the full-extent of 100x MPE audience scanning shows, ie: many in Europe (...and FYI, EuroBrethren, that is not an 'attack', simply a point of reference...) for many years, if-ever.... and the reason I cannot 'prove' these opinions with any DATA, is because we do not have access to the millions of eyeballs in Europe / elsewhere, where these exposures are occuring. And even in the published-studies, not EVERY SINGLE eye exposed, was, in-fact, examined...BUT - again, IMO - THAT DOES NOT PROVE THAT THERE IS NO DAMAGE, from such-shows...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    I'm not saying there is no risk. What I am saying is that there is a LOT of fear-mongering going on in the interest of steering US hobbyists and pros toward certain manufacturers and businesses. I'm really not sure why it's so hard to understand what exactly I'm saying..
    Cause, #1, you contradict yourself every other sentence, and #2, many of your arguments are flawed, at-best. By your logic, you would argue that seat-belt use in cars is all just 'self-serving fear-mongering' by the Auto Industry, just because millions of people 'get away with it', daily, and suffer no harm?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElektroFreak View Post
    It appears, though, that the risks are often blown WAY out of proportion and used as propaganda tools for US businesses and their friends...
    You are the only thing 'blown way out of proportion', dude. It really will be fascinating to watch you start and operate a Show Co., someday, as you have stated-interest in-doing... That way, you can show all us fools and charlatans how it's done...

    Your turn...
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

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