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Thread: Laser + Generator

  1. #11
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    First off thanks yall for all the incite to possible problems...

    So a little more info......I found out last night that indeed they use multiple generators....the sound was on 2 smaller gens and I was on the gen with lighting(strobes/movers) and some kitchen equipment also...I guess thats why the sound survived

    I think I have come up with a good solution for now....I'm going to run all lighting from the BIG gen and Im going to have 1 small generator for ONLY the laser.....this generator will run power through a APC UPS and then through a furman 215a.

    Karl is the one who suggested this to me and it makes sense...."My furman protects me from bad power more than my (APC)cyberpower, but the (APC) cyberpower protects more from the constant ups and downs of the voltage than my furman."

    Whatcha Think?

    -Brooks
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  2. #12
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    1 More question.....since Im getting a separate gen for just the laser should I get an inverter generator or a regular gen? And what would happen if I go from blackout to full on with the laser and the generator wasnt able to produce the power instantaneously enough?

    Differences......

    An inverter generator typically has an engine that can be run at variable speed depending upon the load. The engine is connected to an efficient alternator whose output is converted to DC by a rectifier and smoothed somewhat by capacitors. This raw DC power is then inverted into smooth AC power of the proper frequency and voltage for the output (for example 110-120VAC 60HZ or 220-240VAC 50 or 60 HZ). Regulation is very good and the system will use less fuel if the load is small or variable since the control system will allow the engine to idle down when the load is small or throttle up when the load is large.


    A standard "generator" or "genset" is an engine connected to an alternator and run at a speed that is some multiple of the desired AC frequency, regardless of the load on it (as the load increases the throttle opens more to keep the engine speed the same). The output of the alternator is connected directly to the load. Typical speeds are 1800 or 3600 rpm in the USA for 60HZ power when using a 4-pole or 2-pole alternator respectively. The engine speed control can be as simple as the mechanical feedback governor system used for any constant-speed engine.
    Last edited by KGB; 05-24-2011 at 12:46. Reason: More Info
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielbriggs View Post
    When running stuff from a generator; I use a nice line interactive UPS: this 3000VA 'lil thing


    Got one flight-cased up and ready to rock
    Works super great!
    Heavy f*cker though. Hate it.
    yep, I always take my smartUPS with my projector

    although I use a smaller one, generally a smartups 1000 or 1500... have several rackmount/tower ones, love them

  4. #14
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    Lightbulb

    Hey Sir KGB -

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    And what would happen if I go from blackout to full on with the laser and the generator wasnt able to produce the power instantaneously enough?
    What kind of lasers / load we talkin, here? Big-gun Ions? Cause, I can't see any real serious 'restart load-issues', if we're talking a few of the typical 'toaster-oven RGBs'..

    In either case, to the suggestions of the Smart UPS, vs what is basically just a 'souped-up power strip' (Furmans, etc...) and I'd also suggest you make sure they install a good, solid, well-connected ground-rod for the gennies - only time we've every had bad bad things happen with gennies, was when the Client forgot to install one (...and it escaped our notice... that was our bad, really... )

    Anyhoo, there's mis dos centavos...
    ciao ciao
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  5. #15
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    I purchased my own 4ft copper rod for grounding last year after this happened... So im going to make sure we have a good ground this year......(not saying we didnt have one last year)

    No, im not using ions thank god. Just the 1 laser that's in my sig...... not sure I would call it toaster oven...more like (LT1000 clone) Mini Fridge :P
    Last edited by KGB; 05-24-2011 at 13:36.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    I purchased my own 4ft copper rod for grounding last year after this happened...
    Good ground is your friend...

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    not sure I would call it toaster oven...more like (LT1000 clone) Mini Fridge
    Haha, I just meant 'toaster' in terms-of general-size / power-consumption... nothing 'negative'.... Actually, I really like your 'mini fridge'...nice werk!
    ...got any Coronas stashed in there, by any chance?

    cheers...
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  7. #17
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    Switching PSUs, even autoswitchers, do not cope well with the generator's surging. Many PWM dimmers can actually dump energy in the reverse direction, as well. Arc lamp ballasts are noisy, spiky and and dump power back into the line.

    The cure for this is magnetics between your projector and a ups, and a GOOD quality UPS.
    Avoid a BigBoxMart UPS, get a quality one.

    Then put a big bastard piece of iron in the form of a low pass filter between the UPS and you. Not your common little line filter that sets on the rear of a IEC/HP plug. It should be a canned passthrough filter with 4 terminals. Remember to tie its case to ground or its usefulness is 50% of what it could be. Good ones are heavy with massive filter caps and big inductors like this:


    http://cgi.ebay.com/5X-COROCOM-AC-LI...item19c5a3292c

    Those are small Corcoms, I prefer the ones that way a pound or more. Corcom is good.

    This is good:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/30AMP-AC-Power-L...item33664256c6


    Do not fall for a MOV type suppressor, while they have their uses in a home/business circuit off a decent transformer, they will not hold up to Jenny's sudden screams and spiking urges. Also make sure there is a ground stake on the genset, and avoid crossing the streams.

    Crossing the streams means having your control gear on wall or house power and your projector on the Genset. Having 10 ohms of earth ground between the hopefully well grounded generator and a utility earth ground is asking for nasty differential voltages. If possible, everything you have should be on the same phase.

    Do not forget to protect the control computer as well.

    The neglected conductor in a hastily wired distro is usually the ground. This is bad, and will be the eventual cause of the end of the universe. You need the 3rd (green wire) ground, and it should be a hefty stranded wire all the way back to the box.

    Also verify the settings on the generator's master voltage switch. Some can do 600 AC for industrial lighting or 380 for European stuff, always get out a voltmeter before hooking up.

    Get in the habit of checking the outlets, not just line to neutral, but line to ground and neutral to ground. Those three neon based outlet testers are the cat's meow. I always check with a voltmeter, even with a three neon tester.

    Make sure the distro has a neutral bonded to ground at the generator end. Do not work on circuits where they bond neutral to ground at the local box. That is very bad Karma.

    Also, learn what you need about proper single phase 110-220 wiring. I've met many a generator operator who did not know dogs bollocks about what he was doing.

    Read Pangolin's PDF on proper projector wiring, its eye opening.

    Steve

  8. #18
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    theres also something to be said about the switchers most people use here vs a good power supply... I don't use any chinese switchers in my projector, only Lambda, Power One, etc... they can take a lot more abuse than the little silver boxes that come from the east

  9. #19
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    I second the grounding rod advise. I was at a festival last year where the two larger stages had no grounding rods. Amazingly, the main stage with Funktion-One sound and a million robotic lights had no issues, but on my stage, the main audio lost all of its tops. (brand new tops, at that.)

    It was very wet out for the latter part of the weekend because it was way up on a hill and the clouds were rolling over us from two directions, condensing into water in the trees. I'm not sure this caused the issue, but I have a feeling the trouble had something to do with the lack of proper ground.

    I'm just glad none of my gear was affected. From then on, I decided to make sure the spike is properly driven and wired to the generators.

    - Jonathan

  10. #20
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    So just to sum up everything Im doing.....I just installed the Furman 215a Conditioner and have a APC backup...... I also ordered a INVERTER generator just for the laser.....super stable/clean power.


    I doubt after all this that I will have any issues with power this year....

    thanks PL!!

    10W RGB
    2x 5W RGB
    2x 3W RGB
    2x 1W Green
    ---------------------------------
    QM.NET, 2x FB3, LivePro, Beyond, APC40,

    kgblasers.com

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