New EYEMAGIC Scanners EMS7000

[JohnYayas]

Hi DZ, the EMS7k's require 20-30V and 60W per rail minimum

Hmmm. It is entirely possible that the power supply at FLEM couldn't deliver enough current. That would explain the lack of performance.

[White-Light]

Hmmm. It is entirely possible that the power supply at FLEM couldn't deliver enough current. That would explain the lack of performance.

Sorry I know I said I was going to keep out of this, but everyone is overlooking one obvious point here, the possible lack of current at the lem doesn't explain Bill's results in his lab. I doubt there would have been power starvation there. The terrible results at FLEM could be down to power starvation and that might explain the small scan angles. However it doesn't explain the lab tests or the fact that Solarfire doesn't seem to be able to reproduce the ILDA test pattern perfectly at 60K and 10 degrees with his set.

The pattern generally suggests these are decent scanners, just maybe not 60K @ 10 degree scanners or at least should I say his set appear to be unable to project a perfect pattern at that speed / angle in their current tune.

Mixed Gases testing offer would seem the best way to get truly independent results.

[mixedgas]

As for moonlighting with yer scanners,, heck no...
I have F#uck all time to go do shows for the next few months. Aligning a difficult, old, 1996 Ti-Saph to lase took me and a factory trained tech 12 hours today, and its still at only 1/3rd power and not properly modelocking... It took me a month to get it where the tech could come in. That is at one small end of a 9 foot long optical table, and I cant jump to the next amplifier in the chain until I have 800+ mW. There are two more lasers and 48 mirrors towards the sample in the work project... I need to generate picosecond tunable light at 4.5 microns and 400 nanometers in less then a month. At "The Speed of University" this means TOTAL dedication.

A Saturday or two of precision galvo testing would be fun and relaxing, but the Galvos would be Fedexing back to you on Sunday after church.
Only reason they would stay longer is if I need to get a witness over to view.

QM32 is what the pattern was designed for, no "VECTOR OUTPUT MODE" nause to deal with. Ie its a true double buffered frame dumper.
This gives us backwards compatability with early testing, with no magical vector software "tricks" to compensate. Dont get me wrong, I think vector looks great. However if there is a subtle flaw, I dont want it to be in the test patterns.

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the QM2000 other then A. I dont own one and don't have the budget for one for a long time. . B, I'm going with the tried, and true, that I know is doing the pattern like it was done in the old days. This way no one can argue with the choice of waveform generation.

Besides, I can eventually supply a high res wav file of the used patterns on disk to those who request.

Steve

[Solarfire]

Just to make things clear and up front. I’m in no way associated with EyeMagic, CT, Pangolin or any other laser component manufacturer/distributor or any thing else down that line and nobody has more interest in determining the actual performance of the EMS7000 scanners then I as an owner of 2 sets of these. Believe me, I would be the first to be whistle blowing here if the acquired product was not up to par. Fortunately the results have surpassed my initial expectations. Yes, I was more then sceptical of the claims to this scanners performance and I would have been satisfied even if these wouldn’t have come totally up to par, just due to the cost/performance factor involved here.

Hmm… It’s suspiciously quiet on this thread? I would have expected the Pango/CT disciples to be crawling out of the woodwork by now. Funny thing that just now someone is starting to question the setup and results of the FLEM. Do people here always take what Mr. Benner says as gospel? I guess Pangolin is like Apple, they have followers just for the sake of being a part of the status symbol. Well Mr. Benner I’m afraid you’re going to have to give back your merit badge as the ultimate scanner expert.

Fortunately I have 2 sets of the EMS7000s here and both have confirmed performance as stated. What I haven’t mentioned is that the scan angle can be increased substantially without significant change of the displayed image/ILDA frame. Besides all this ILDA frame crap, the performance in a show environment is excellent. I did me about an hour of show after testing last night and even though the setup is monochrome at the moment, I got that warm fuzzy feeling of cash well spent. Thanks to all at EyeMagic!

Mr. Whitelight from you I have only heard what these scanners can’t do, don’t you think it’s time to get off the bandwagon and acknowledge what they can do? I have seen worse pictures of the ILDA frame reproduction of other scanners trying to meet up to their claims.

As too independent testing of these scanners I think Steve would be the best candidate for this. Mr. Buffo doesn’t qualify here as he has already showed his bias in the FLEM thread mainly through the statement “The EMS7000s suck”. This kinda shows that he doesn’t do his homework very well. Well I for one will be acquiring some more of these suck ass scanners.

Ahh.. I’m still waiting on a picture of the CT6215s doing 60kpps @ 10°, nobody proud or ambitious enough to post the overwhelming CT performance?

[absolom7691]

I too, am waiting for an independant test by someone who is not Pango/CT/EMS fanboy.

[White-Light]

Mr. Whitelight from you I have only heard what these scanners can’t do, don’t you think it’s time to get off the bandwagon and acknowledge what they can do? I have seen worse pictures of the ILDA frame reproduction of other scanners trying to meet up to their claims.

At no point in this argument have I taken sides. I have never commented negatively about the scanners except to say they don't appear to be performing a perfect pattern in your tests. In fact just 2 posts above I acknowledge that at FLEM it could have been a psu issue and state that to me they look decent scanners given the quality of the ILDA pattern generally at such a high speed.

As for you attack on Bill, if the psu in Flecom's projector was incapable of supplying sufficient power, and lets not forget this is speculation NOT proven fact, how would he be expected to know that without taking the entire projector apart assuming Flecom would have let him? This was a LEM not a lab testing station where there's time to perform extensive PSU tests with nothing else to do in the day and lets not forget this was not a lab test sample but someone's expensive pride and joy. I wouldn't let anyone take the lower stage of my projector apart to inspect PSU's even if it was by eg Greg Markhov or Patrick Murphy, and again this is only speculation.

You also attack Bill's credentials and yet I can tell you I have absolutely no doubt that he is one of the world's foremost experts on scanner design. I know of things he's been involved in involving scanners that are not public knowledge as they came out in private chats that we've had when I've been inquiring about his products.

I can actually understand Bill's frustration if as Adam reported, having done more than a years R&D with all the associated long hours and expense, he has a product ready to go market only to find out that a competitor has produced a "similar" spec product advertised that he can sell for a price that he can't match. If having realized that and scrapped it and started a complete re-design so as to give himself a product that performs at a higher level and thus has a unique selling point to justify the premium, it later transpires that the other product didn't allegedly have the claimed same performance, (note I'm saying IF here not that it didn't as again I'm not taking sides and to me not having witnessed anything 1st hand, this is unproven), then you can understand the frustration where a years worth of work has been scrapped as a result.

It's just a pity that some of that frustration perhaps boiled over and that this thread was as a result subject to some ill judged comments from many sides that have perhaps led to it becoming a witch hunt.

I too, am waiting for an independant test by someone who is not Pango/CT/EMS fanboy.

Best dialogue in this thread.

[smogthemog]

Al, are you having an affair with anyone working for Pang0lin?

[Solarfire]

Hey White-light lets not overdo it now, this was not an attack on Mr. Benner and I’m well aware of his credentials. It’s due to Mr. Benner’s position in the laser industry that this should be seen more as sharp criticism on how he presented and handled this subject in such a reputation damaging way that can be only described, as Mr. Buffo would put it, “Sucks”. Also due to Mr. Benner’s credentials one would expect him to be a little more thorough with his research or posting of flawed test results concerning other company’s products before publicly discrediting these.

What makes no sense to me is, why would Mr. Benner shelve his hyper scanners he is developing just because Mr. Kamaras developed the EMS7000? Unless this was seen as a chance to draw back claims he might not be able to deliver. So was this EyeMagic witch hunt just a distraction to divert all eyes away from Mr. Benner’s yet to be seen scanners? What ever……

[cyberb0b]

Is everybody not overreacting?

Someone states there hardware is great, others claim the hardware can't meet those specs.
In my opinion every hardware/software, designer/developer is obligated to its customers to give the correct specs and performances.

If an company can prove proof, made with the market accepted standard tests, that there products meet those standards, there is no issue.
If an company can't provide that info.. There is something wrong.

In this case, it would be best that Eye magic, provide everyone with the specs and show how they test and confirm these.
When proven, great.. Job good done! If this can't be provided.. uhm...

Would we not ask the same of Pangolin as soon as they deliver an new product, to proof that it can do what they claim it can do?

Besides who is right and wrong, there is always another issue that determines the choice of the product that your going to use, and thats money.
If something is to expensive for your budget, you can look at other candidates.
The satisfaction factor is always in the eye of the beholder.
Price versus performance.

[White-Light]

Al, are you having an affair with anyone working for Pang0lin?

Just to be clear, my observation of there being some perhaps ill judged comments..was from MANY sides. I don't remember excluding or including anyone specifically.