Another 1st post newbie thread

[r21442]

Thinking about an animated laser for a domestic application in Glasgow, UK. Currently use a cheap gobo projector to project a fixed image from inside the house through a window onto a large white wall. Use at Christmas, halloween, Guy Fawkes, parties etc. to add a unique sparkle. Thinking an animated laser could crank the interest up!

Dropped into two Maplins but they were useless. Tried a 'DJ' shop in town today and they recommended the Equinox Ripper but didn't seem much interested in making a sale either. I see the ripper for sale c. £350 and a reasonable price though would not want to go too much more. Cannot find any more info than a summary and no manufacturer site to download manual or anything. I saw a claim of 200 images which would be fine if they were what I need. Although I am capable of getting into detail and programming my use profile would suggest that is a lot of effort for all I'm using it for. If it was just a case of finding images online and downloading onto SD that is fine. Starting from scratch with ILDA(?) software is probably a stretch too far. These things always more complicated when you dig into it - I see on here a thread with just such trouble. Ideally, I'd want a reasonable library of images and a simple way on the laser itself to select the ones of I want to use in the show then let it cycle through these in some random way for the selected theme.

The unit would sit in my home office - are they noisy? Like a PC fan maybe?

Some control over the image size would be nice.

Finally, safety, can't believe these on open sale are going to cause problems but what do I need to do to ensure that?

Suggestions?

[LaNeK779]

my first thought was "give us some more info like multicolour or single colour, complicated graphics or just a few patterns, projection distance and projection size"

but the more i think about it, i say stick to the led gobo projectors, don't waste your money on laser stuff that is priced so cheaply
you could do something with little money if you wanted to invest some time, but i see this is not the case

[WookieBoy]

Hi there.

Well, firstly I'd suggest that the stock images in most of these 'DJ lasers' are pretty c$@p...

Usually they're all made in China and have amusing if not cheesy cartoon type stuff as images... Flying birds. Hands clapping. Bad 'Chinglish' translations of words etc etc etc

Most will have the word 'happy' in them somewhere. )

Control is usually DMX, but varies in competence from simply turning it on/off and selecting an image, right up to the ability to change image size, scan speed, image position and rotation etc etc etc although the DMX control can be a bit klunky and inaccurate.

Don't believe for a moment that just because it's on sale in the UK it's safe to use! I've seen lasers for sale in my local dodgy DJ shop and on eBay that are advertised as well over 3 watts of output power. This is enough to burn your skin if you got in the way of a static beam and would cause serious, permanent damage to your eyes, if not blindness if you caught a beam straight on.
I'm no expert as I'm fairly new to lasers myself (having bought just such a one on eBay), however it seems in the UK there's no law against selling the equipment (as long as a few simple safety measures are included in the design of the hardware), only using it in public.

For basic safety, obviously don't look into the beam. EVER!
You should always aim your laser in such a way as the public (or animals) will not be able to look into the beam.
You should not point the beam at any surface that may cause stray reflections of the beam. (ie a wall with windows in it as glass is reflective)
It's generally accepted that you should always have your beam high enough above the heads of any audience so they can't reach into the beam and cause reflections from watches/jewellery. (From memory there's a recommended 3m minimum safety height, but check as I'm not sure of this from memory)

The full UK safety rules are published by the HSE in document HSG95 which is available on-line if you google it (other search engines are available)
If I understand you correctly, you intend to shine the beam outside? I believe this opens up a whole new can of worms as there are an extra set of rules regarding the use of lasers outside designed to protect air-traffic. If these aren't followed (I'm fairly sure you have to get permissions and register your use with the CAA) then very upset men with little or no sense of humour come knocking on your door... And if you're near an airport, they arrive very quickly.
Usually with the Police.

I don't want to put you off too much, because lasers are a really great and unusual effect when used correctly and safely. However for what you said you intend to use it for, I think you might be better off with a Profile lantern and a gobo set of seasonal gobos from DHA or ROSCO and projecting that from your office...
A profile is a standard theatre light and you can pick up a reasonable one second hand on eBay for under £100 or there are cheap LED powered things available now for slightly more.
Gobos cost a few quid each, or if you're any good with a craft knife, you can cut your own out of a foil take away tin...

Hope that's helpful.

Don't give up on lasers. They're great really, just not really what you need for the job by the sounds of it...

[Jem]

Hey Wookie

Nice post, but you may like to add the word 'NOT' at the appropriate place in the following sentence

...you should always aim your laser in such a way as the public (or animals) will be able to look into the beam.

Cheers

Jem

[WookieBoy]

Thanks for pointing out my error Jem.

Trying to type as fast as I was thinking again...

[r21442]

Great inputs guys particularly the safety doc. Its clear that my intended application would be classed as unsuitable - mainly viz. window reflections so I'll abandon this route & stick with the gobo projection. There is no way I'm taking any risks. Wookie - know of any motorised profile lanterns that could change gobo selection at fixed interval?

[WookieBoy]

Hmmmm.... That's an interesting one!

The only units I can think of off of the top of my head would be Optikinetics' solar or K series projectors or the VIP projector from Clay Paky. Both these units are designed for shop/exhibition installation and are modular so you can just bolt on the size of lense/prism you want, add gobo changers or slide holders etc etc etc.

Optikinetics are found :- http://www.optikinetics.co.uk/opti/index.php
Clay Paky are found :- http://www.claypaky.it/en/home/

If by motorised profile you mean a moving head (ie one that will move the image around by DMX remote control) then the choice gets a bit larger, but the cost of fitting gobo's to them gets a bit larger as well.

There are hundreds of cheap Chinese versions of professional moving head lights we use in concerts and tours.

Something like a Chauvet (American but made in China) Q-Spot LED would do the trick (and they're fairly cheap and LED so use little electrikery to run) http://www.chauvetlighting.com/qspot-160-led.html

You'd have to get the gobo's made to go in them as they come with 'standard disco' gobos for doing beam effects, but this shouldn't cost you more than say £10 per image ish...

I'm sure there's a local teatre suppliers in Glasgow that will be able to help you with gobo production. If not, contact DHA http://www.dhalighting.co.uk/custom-gobo.html or Projected Image http://projectedimage.com/

Hope this helps

If not, give me a shout

[r21442]

Fantastic Wookie - above & beyond!

[WookieBoy]

No worries

Glad I could help.

[stanwax]

Just to clear up - you DO NOT need CAA if you are pointing at a building or other surface. Only unterminated beams into the sky need CAA notification. If your projections are on a wall that is visible from a road you should really make sure the council traffic dept and the police are happy (even if its just to keep them happy so if anyone complains or calls in they are already aware and shouldnt need to send someone out) - mostly they prob wont care if its domestic use but you need to be sure that the laser can never be moved either intentionally or accidentally to point at traffic. If this could happen you will be in trouble. If projecting through a window make a mask from a suitable material that can absorb the full power of the laser without going on fire, and fix it to the window. Cut an opening that is just big enough for the beam to pass through. Then if the projector moves it will be blocked from going where it shouldn't.
I often project on my neighbours house (at Xmas and other times) and it can stand out really well even with low power.
Rob