So in short even if we submit our design and win the cash prize we can still build and sell that design here correct?
So in short even if we submit our design and win the cash prize we can still build and sell that design here correct?
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Maybe it would get more interest if instead of a cash prize, you licence the design, and pay a fee per module.. otherwise it seems like a bit of a scam..
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I'm a little disheartened by some of the replies here. I think what Dan and X-Lasers has offered is quite a cool little contest. There are quite a few people here that have made and developed some REALLY ingenius modules. edison, Andy, Dave, MANY of you have made some works of art. I dont think, (and I may be wrong) That Dan nor X-Lasers have once said that you give up all rights ot your design. I dont understand where all of this apprehension has come from.
I hear/see this all of the time...
For you Dj's out there- If you remix a song and/or enter a remix contest, if you submit the remix to the label/artist whatever- the work becomes their property. If it is used, you gain some sort of compensation.
Funny video submissions on TV- Send in a video of your cute dog falling in a pool- the tape becomes the property of the channel.
Logo contest for business'- you design a logo for a business/corp- the design becomes the property of the company/corp.
NONE of these situations denote them taking your work and claiming it as their own. nor does this contest.
I think this just means exactly that- your submission becomes their property if you win. If Joe Smith submits XYZ red module and Joe wins, he gives X-Laser permission that that submission is 1) of their own design, 2) gives rights to X-Laser to use this design as they see fit in their product as this is now "Their property." *NOT* their invention. *NOT* exclusiv rights to the work. You are just saying, sure....my work is for you guys to use as your property.All design ideas and submissions will become the property of X-Laser to be used at our discretion
Music is the same. If you are in a band or DJ, you pay (or are supposed to pay) rights to "borrow" the rights to use a song in your set. Here in the U.S. its ASCAP or BMG. they govern a product (the music) and you're paying them to use their product (property) to make money off of it. It doesnt mean that the music is SOLELY yours. It doesnt mean that the original artist (or laser designer) cant use their product anywhere else. you're just letting somebody use your product with permission.
I dont know, maybe im 100% wrong with whats going on here. But I think some of the accusations and assumptions here are a little un-called for.
Just my opinion.
-Marc
ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee
Authorized Dealer for:
- Pangolin Laser Software and Hardware
- KVANT Laser Modules & Laser Systems
- X-Laser USA
- CNI Lasers
- Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems
FDA/CDRH Certified Professional LuminanceRGB Laser Light Show Systems
I am all for this.
There is alot of work put into making these.
that would get messy since a lot of the designs are "crowd sourced" different ideas coming together and the module evolves into a final product... many people could claim ownership... although I guess the same could be said about any design...
oh well at least they are trying to do something, everyone came together and made the 445 modules kick ass, I know we have people smart enough to make these reds not suck
Before I begin with my comments, I hope you understand Dan (and others) that in expressing my viewpoint, that this is not an accusation or attack. Unfortunately many folks here seem to take robust debate in a negative context (especially if they're on the receiving end)! For example if I say "I think you are trying to scam cheap R&D off the PL community" this would just be a representation of my perception, which may not be shared by others or even be factually true. What it isn't is an accusation. If I was making an accusation, it would be stated along the lines of "you are scamming cheap R&D..."
So with that hopefully setting the tone of my feedback...
Given you are a commercial enterprise that would benefit financially from a successful outcome from this initiative, how would we, the PL community as a whole, benefit? What would the "meaningful contribution" to this community be?
I don't think the idea is poor. But I do think the communication of the initiative and its details has been. That's not to say it couldn't be improved. One key aspect to illustrate this is that through a lack of clarity around the details regarding use, property, IP, ownership etc. many concerns have been raised. I think it's more than reasonable that they're raised in the absence of any real clarity.
I hope you can make a success of such an initiative and that you are able to contribute meaningfully to this community as a whole.
i have no problem to share my designs - contraptions - ideas etc with any other person like me i.e. a hobbist, or with a professional that has actually taken the time to listen to me and offer constructive criticism, that is what the forum is about. but mr x laser, what you offer is wrong in so many ways that i cannot even begin to comment
if you wanted to make this interesting you would add another zero at the end and give PL 10% of that, or cover R&D costs and offer a commercial agreement with royalties for the first 200 units or so. A 2watt kvant or cni or rgblasersystems costs more than 3000 usd. The 2watt mitsu solution that some of us already have, in theory or partially assembled or even fully tested and working won't cost more than 450-600 usd. So this is around 2500 profit for you (not factoring in any quantity discounts or other benefits you might have). You are interested in a production run of 100 pieces, so this would benefit you around a quarter of a million if my math is correct. Not even mentioning that you could blow away competition with a whole series of projectors with bright red at one third of the price. And for all this you are offering just 1000...
i'm irritated to say the least, this is so out of the community-project spirit. if you want to help and contribute mr corporate guy, approach an optics company that won't even talk to us, solve the problem and then let some vague info "leak" out on the forums. even that would be usefull. you are the pro, we should be asking you for knowledge, not the other way around (and practically for free)
and what is more irritating is that you openly admited some posts ago that despite all parts, numbers, focal lengths, suppliers etc having already been posted all over here, you can't be bothered to take the time and search
oh well...
"its called character briggs..."
Fortunately, this doesn't necessarily affect me as I don't have a clue about designing something of this nature. It only effects me as a member of the forum and, the effects, positive or negative of offering such a contest here in the forum. I see both sides and, agree and disagree with various points for each but, to me, it comes down to this.... If you have an issue with the terms... simply don't enter! Novel concept, I know but, it's much the same as watching American Idol and saying, "I hate this show." And, not being smart enough to change the damn channel.
I don't think there should be a big fear that suddenly the forum is going to be filled with contests like this. It's probably a "one off". Dan is a regular contributing member and not just a "sign up, post a contest, and leave" kinda guy. He's on the board of ILDA, donates prizes for LEM's, financially supports PL, etc. And, truthfully, doesn't sell a product particularly geared towards the bulk of members here. Is he looking for a little low cost R&D? Yeah, probably. If I enter the contest, am I smart enough to realize that? Yeah, probably. (If you can design a red, you can probably also "read between the lines.") If the designs are posted here for submission, are you the member getting the benefit of seeing them and potentially building your own? Yeah, probably. Is $1,000 too cheap in the grand scheme of things? Yeah, probably.
Is X-Laser getting exclusive rights, copyrights, i.e. "screwing the designer" out of being able to profit on the design? No.. doesn't sound that way. And, I think Dan knows that would make him about as low around the laser community as whale shit.
So... I don't know where an opinion like that puts me on a political spectrum. Is "wishy-washy" an option?? It rubs me a little the wrong way like LaNek779 but, by the same token, I see where it's not as bad as it appears as posted by Gottaluvlasers. (and Dan's rebuttle.)
If a few want to try and make a little cash by posting something as freely given and detailed as kiyoukan, they have that choice.
My $.02.... About all that's left! (Silly assed hobby)