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Thread: "X" Prize - $1,000 Contest

  1. #1
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    Default "X" Prize - $1,000 Contest

    Many of us have been troubled by the lack of a decent red solution ever since big blue came in to town. There are a lot of smart folks out there that have been working on it for a while now, but with no clear frontrunner as of yet. At X-Laser we respect the amount of research, brainpower and effort that has been put into this project so far and as such we'd like to incentivize things a bit.

    X-Laser is putting up a $1000 CASH bounty for the best high powered red solution that this community can generate. To qualify for the prize, it will need to meet these specs:

    Power: 1000-2000mW
    Wavelength: between 635-640nm
    Beam diameter: Less than or equal to 5mm
    Divergence: Less than or equal to 1.5miliradians
    Fast axis correction: 1:3 or better

    Many people can do that with an unlimited budget, what we will be judging the entries on is who can come up with the design that can be manufactured at the lowest cost without meaningfully compromising stability of optical alignment or the life of the diodes. Alignment stability is really key of course.

    We're posting this bounty up for the next 2 months, if you have a design that meets these specs and can send it to us with specific details on parts, focal lengths, etc. you may win the bounty. Of course, working models are going to get you a lot farther than theoretical written plans, but we're open to all ideas. This bounty is for the diode, mounting and optics solution, the electronics aren't a major concern for the purposes of the bounty. We will give special consideration to submissions which include concrete cost estimates from vendors capable of completing the work in small batches of 100 units or less.

    All design ideas and submissions will become the property of X-Laser to be used at our discretion. Physical proof of concept pieces will be returned within two weeks of the contest ending. We will announce the winner at the conclusion of the contest. People can of course work together but each submission must be submitted under only one name. The prize will be paid to the ONE person whose name is on the submission. How the funds are disbursed is up to the winner.

    Please post questions here or by PM if you don't want to give away the "magic." =)

  2. #2
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    It is no longer a flash light.

    A beam with around 3.65mm wide by 2mm with around 1 to 1.1 Mrad
    give or take .6mm
    powers from 600mw very under driven up to 1.2W over driven with the 300mw mitsu diodes.
    With the 500mw mitsu diodes the same optics can be used and powers much great around 1w to 2W can be gotten.
    If you wanted more power you could build 2 of these and use a waveplate and pbs cube.
    Thus getting you a max power of 4W all with near close to the same beam specs.
    With no splash or wings a good pure laser beam.
    My current setup with custom optics.


    There are some parts that are going into each other i just have not redesigned them but its nothing hard to do.
    This build was also one for as small as possible if you can go larger it would be a better. i just liked the enclosure.

    The reason for the border is the whole thing will be covered by this

    The bottom will be cut out and where the holes are in the plate will be the only parts left on the enclosure to secure it.
    If any of you have seen my you tube channel you have seen my results with my current set of lenses.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/kiyoukan1
    The build takes advantage that my optics work differently that Drlavas.
    His uses one concave and one convex lens.
    Mine use two convex lenses.
    So there is a point when the beams come together in a very small point
    See very bad drawing.

    This allows you to use a FS mirror to get the beams super close.
    There will be alot of pictures to come.
    Now for my setup i am using a 6X c lens setup.
    The lenses are very easy to work with so easy they are faster to setup than prisms.
    The reason why is the fact that they are large and as such getting the diode on the center of them is very easy and even if you are not on the center you wont lose any power.
    I am getting optics made but wont be able to get a full price quote till the first of the month due to the china holiday.
    But if you guys want to see them
    These are the diode lens.
    There is a 2mm efl and a 2.75efl lens
    The ones i have coming from dave are 2mm efl
    I decided to buy a set due to the production time will take a few weeks and i dont want to wait.


    This next picture is my custom Cylindrical lenses.


    If you are interested in getting some optics to make and correct a 635nm diode let me know.
    To get good prices on lenses we will need to order at least 50 of them.


    Important price info
    Price for 2 cylindrical lenses will be from 30 to 35$
    Price for diode lens is 40$ (order from dave at LSP once mine get made price will be lower)
    So for a full set will cost 70 to 75$
    For a dual diode setup will only cost the price of another diode lens plus 10$ as i can cut these lenses in half and you can use that for each diode
    These optics are a bit cheaper if i were to take no profit but there is alot of money and time spent making this so i would like to make my cost back.

    If you want a list of my suppliers that can be talked about in private that is the only thing i wont give out.
    if you read that thread there is a link to my you tube channel but i am using plastic lenses. So i cant push the diodes without melting the lenses.
    Also the video quality is crap.
    All my results are going to be public no information will be kept private.
    I do have a price but i would rather let everyone have the knowledge than just a few.

    UPDATE QUAD BUILD
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    Last edited by kiyoukan; 01-21-2012 at 11:28. Reason: more info

  3. #3
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    swamidog is online now Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-Laser View Post
    All design ideas and submissions will become the property of X-Laser to be used at our discretion.

    Please post questions here or by PM if you don't want to give away the "magic." =)
    sorry?

    you're offering 1000$ for someone to design a red laser module? are you claiming exclusive ownership/patent on the design? what about rights and royalties?

    "all design ideas and submissions will become property of X-Laser to be used at our discretion."

    if i send you an idea, and you never use it or ever pay for it, it's still your property? exclusive property?

    look, i love the spirit of innovation and there are some smart people here that can probably meet your specs, but you have some wording here that makes my spider sense tingle. x-laser has a good reputation, and i'm sure you mean well, but i would never submit a design to a competition with terms this vague.

    a laser module with the desired specs sells for more than you're offering as the "prize".
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

  4. #4
    soforene's Avatar
    soforene is offline The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-Laser View Post
    ...All design ideas and submissions will become the property of X-Laser to be used at our discretion.....
    Maybe on Planet X-Laser but we roll differently here on Planet Earth.
    Who on Earth would even give you a sniff of an idea (that you would use to make money) and sign away all rights.


    Granted, there are millions of numpties out there but folks who tinker with lasers have a bit of "nouse" and wouldn't entertain such an idea.

    Time for a rewrite of your rules methinks ................

  5. #5
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    Swami -

    We are trying to encourage innovation here by throwing down some money to give people a goal and a reward beyond bragging rights and a nice module. All or nearly all contests of this type contain the stipulation that all submissions become the property of the awarding party because it gets very messy trying to figure out whose idea belonged to whom and when and to what degree when many similar ideas could be submitted. This is very common and really should not elicit a spine tingle... I never said anything about exclusive property nor would anyone other than a fool patent something submitted in a contest without a written IP release by the inventor who would then probably still need to be named anyway.

    If I was intending to have it all for X-Laser and no one else ever there would have been a LOT more fine print and probably a submission form because it would need to be signed as full IP rights release.

    I am going to be a little snippy here because I have never had someone criticize a prize - or a "prize" as you say - being offered for something that people are working on anyway. Yes, a red module with these specs is more than the amount of the prize... but that is exactly the point: to be able to bring the cost down by combining a good design(s) with economies of scale and quality manufacturing. Does it decrease our R&D cost? You bet - which then also makes the modules more affordable once manufactured.

    In any case we are putting up some money to help support the communities' efforts in what we hope would be a win-win-win. If a thousand bucks is not enough money for you then I respectfully suggest that you not participate, or put up a "prize" yourself in a bigger amount. In any case, we are trying to make a meaningful contribution to this community which also benefits X-Laser. If that seems inappropriate, my apologies and I will happily retract the offer.

  6. #6
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    if you really wanted a red module you could contact me, edison, simon and im sure some others who i cant think of off the top of my head. we all have our own designs for building red modules
    Eat Sleep Lase Repeat

  7. #7
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    so far i think im the only one to publish public results.
    if you got any questions ask away.
    I have a machine shop to work in so i can make any prototype very fast.
    Most members hate showing their hands i like to give them out.
    Also i am selling that dual red setup for around 650$
    So the prize is good for me!
    But i make and supply all the components my self even my optics are custom made i will buy what i have to from others but then i go and get them made myself for cheaper.
    Tooling charges are a bitch tho.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-Laser View Post
    (...)

    All design ideas and submissions will become the property of X-Laser to be used at our discretion. Physical proof of concept pieces will be returned within two weeks of the contest ending. We will announce the winner at the conclusion of the contest. People can of course work together but each submission must be submitted under only one name. The prize will be paid to the ONE person whose name is on the submission. How the funds are disbursed is up to the winner.
    Hi,

    I don't understand this part really good. How can a design magically become the property of X-Laser? What if the design is already patented by someone else than the winner?

  9. #9
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    updated my post with more info

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by colouredmirrorball View Post
    Hi,

    I don't understand this part really good. How can a design magically become the property of X-Laser? What if the design is already patented by someone else than the winner?
    Thanks for the question. Simply put, we intend to use the winning design and may also incorporate other elements and ideas from our own work and other sources. When money becomes involved people get a little nutty so by declaring that submissions and the ideas therein become the property of X-Laser, as a blanket statement, we are able to use those ideas without having to fear someone coming back months later and suing us. Additionally, making such a declaration means that a design which is already patented cannot be entered as it cannot become 'our property.'

    Let me give you a quick example: X-Laser has a design we have been working on in house... nothing patentable but a few good ideas. What happens when one of the submissions in the contest incorporates a similar idea or even the same element which we later decide to use? The person submitting the non-winning idea might not believe we had the same idea as well before, or that we had already licensed it from someone, or ...whatever the case may be. Doing it this way completely eliminates the issue of ownership and thus eliminates both legal liability and hard feelings. Agreeing that the design will become the property of X-Laser is a prerequisite for submission so it is not 'magic,' it is a term to be eligible for the prize and anyone who disagrees can very fairly choose not to participate.

    Otherwise, we would be offering a contest and cash prize for someone to come up with an idea which we would then not be able to use. That does not make any sense.

    The very idea that we would somehow expect to exclusively own every red module design in this community is absurd nor have we requested or required that anyone 'sign away all rights.' When you submit an entry to an essay contest, or engineering contest, etc. the designs become the property of the contest host (at least usually) but that does not mean that they own them exclusively unless that was somehow stipulated in the rules (which in this case it was not). People are putting words in my mouth which simply were not there and were never meant to be implied.

    @Andy - Yes, absolutely there are some good designs out there but to be frank the information about them is far flung and we do not have time to sift through things to find all of the information, figure out if they meet our criteria, if not have a half dozen conversations over a couple of months to refine them, if so figure out what it might cost to manufacture, etc. Individuals know their work the best and we thought this would be a good opportunity to refine it for our specs, formalize it, and put it all in one place for a strong critical evaluation. We also need something that can be made hundreds of pieces at a time or more so pre-made kits are not quite what we are looking for... but a kit design could certainly be submitted to be judged based upon the above criteria.

    I hope that clears it up and we can all move on.

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