Bloody lucky I'm in good old Blighty then!!Haha, and you're not even doing audience scanning shows in the USA
Senior Member
Bloody lucky I'm in good old Blighty then!!Haha, and you're not even doing audience scanning shows in the USA
Frikkin Lasers
http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk
You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?
I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.
Hit "pause" at precisely 2:25. They're within an inch of the guy and girls eyes.Originally Posted by masterpj
Member
Real men don't wear gloves while carrying flight cases.
Senior Member
Without a doubt safety is rule nr 1 when showing lasershows.
But...... in all those years there are lasershows, and if i guess i would probable say millions of shows all over the globe, even before ILDA was born and till know there are ONLY 1 or 2 registered injuries?
Off course i'm happy with that, but the other question for me is, why so less after all these shows?
In every company there are accidents EVERY company!, even when they follow the rules, and with millions of lasershows there are only 1 or 2 registered accidents?
This question keeps coming back again day in day out when i'm here on the PL forum.
Even how hard it is to believe when your not at the show and you don't have the numbers of the circumstances we could not say it isn't save what was happent there.
With the KVANT's he was doing the show knowing they where 2W each, is it possible to do a show safely, i think so.
What i want to say is that without the numbers it isn't possible to make it hard he was doing a unsafe show, even when it looks so!
I would believe the same when i see the pictures and movie but i won't say anything about it because i wasn't there to see if it was really like i see on the picture's and in the movie.
In Holland we have to proof that what a company does isn't allowed, only saying but not proofing is the same as there's not happened.
It's like saying, me neighbor was at my front door with a gun but i can't proof he had the gun with him (even when only i have seen it but can't proof it!)
I got a strong feeling on this forum that we overreact when we see something that looks like it isn't save, maybe next time we could better ask the person himself for the facts and when we have the facts we could warn the person in private instead of nailing him in public on the forum.
I'm only here for a view months and i happy with a lot of your information, but i'm absolutely not happy with the way we are dealing with some people.
Ask Joost for facts and warn him when he did something wrong.
Last edited by astatic; 04-02-2012 at 23:17.
Senior Member
@Astatic - I agree that it's impossible to judge how safe a laser show is from video evidence alone, although there is enough experience on this forum for people to react when a show looks as if it might be unsafe. If someone chooses to post pics or a video of their show, they are making the issue public at that point, so expect public comment, and sometimes criticism, to follow.
The problem with eye injuries from a laser show is that they can be very subtle, so that the affected person probably won't even realise they have been injured - think of it as a few pixels no longer working, with the addition of the human brain, which compensates very quickly for eye damage, rapidly masking the effects. As laser operators, we need to be 100% certain that our shows are safe, and this forum is one of the best ways to exchange ideas about that, so nobody is getting nailed here, all that is being asked for is the MPE calcs that were done for the show, so that we can all see it was done safely. A professional operator should be able to do this; a cowboy operator won't have bothered and shouldn't be doing shows at all.
Senior Member
Well I have to say something on this. The Kvant's I saw did just a bit less than the stated power AFTER all the optics, and divergence (apart the low powered ones, the 1.6W RGB you own for example) are around 1.6 mrad full angle, so not so tight. *Very* recent high powered models may have lower divergence because of Jenlas D2.mini or Coherent greenies, but not much the older ones (more than a year).
No again, with the recent DPSS technology the divergence and overall beam quality has become quite worse than previously with gas lasers. Cheap lasers now most often have bad divergence and to be honest, that's a very great thing as these lasers are more likely to be used by djs & co who don't know anything about laser safety. But you're right, prices are becoming cheaper than ever.
You won't see any drop of color balance on my RGB projector when I use BAM, as I perfectly adjusted the color balance along the whole power curve, mostly by software. So that's not an assumption you can make without knowing more about the setup.
And well, don't take it wrong but you may tend to locate you a bit too fast in the "experienced" laserists... As well as a Kvant dealer, I believe your website is up from only a month or so, I don't think you already sold tenth of Kvant projectors to assure everyone all the Kvant models are acting like you say...
And from what I see you are a lot more into graphical creations (and you seems pretty efficient at this), rather than on the road doing multiprojector beamshows each week-end. You're very young, take it easy, don't overestimate you
Senior Member
I can't comment on everyone's projector but I'm with PJ on this one. I have a 2.1 Kvant Spectrum and it registers 2.8w on an Ophir Sensor. In fact with an un-modulated beam it burns holes in the surface of chipboard in under a second - I mean appreciable depressions not just burn marks.
As for the lack of injuries, this is well known and after an extensive study and several years this led to the ILDA 10 x MPE standard based on those results.
However, that standard hasn't been legally adopted by any major European country I'm aware of and in more general terms where we're talking shows exceeding MPE by many times more, you have to appreciate that a lack of reported incidents can't be taken as evidence that scanning at such higher levels is safe.
I'm all for the 10x MPE standard as I believe ILDA have a very considered case for it and I think its well overdue that some countries should allow this.
However, you can't just take that as a sign that its safe just to exercise cart blanche and scan an audeince with whatever power seems safe because at some point it won't be safe and injuries WILL follow.
The only way to be safe and legal is to use MPE until 10 MPE is adopted and never at any time should any laser exceed 10 MPE even in private as there's simply no concrete evidence to suggest this can be done safely.
As for Joosts show, I'm not going to comment.
Senior Member
Ok, did you measured the individual powers? I believe the extra comes from the green (maybe IR power?), as the blue and red ones are usually quite precise... Since i.e. one 1W 637nm is made of 6 diodes of 170mW each, you won't have much extra power, assuming they aren't overdrived...
And just to know, did you measured divergence? Kvant advises their red at around 0.8mrad half angle, so 1.6mrad full angle, but that seems a lot for me especially for lower power, wondering if it's a max or so. On the other hand, they have no reason to advertise worstly than the things are performing in real...
Senior Member
i think this thread is getting derailed to the point of meaningless-ness
it started off as a sales pitch and is turning into a safety-pissing contest
the only thing that is for sure, is that the OP couldn't care less for all this discussion, and the people who do care, know all about safety as it seems, so it is more of many parallel monologues than a real conversation
"its called character briggs..."
Senior Member
that was exactly what I forgot to say at the end of my first post on this thread
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bradfo69