Illegal USA Laser System Sales

[opcom]

Here is the wild wild west of Oztraylya (we luv you), the laws are all written primarily around medical lasers. There are specific regyoulayshions relating to Entertainment lasers but the whole licensing thing has medical focus.

My rigs are licensed to be stored (only) at my home address. If I want to run them up for alignment at home I must submit a Display Safety Plan! All the usual show rules apply, no beams under 3M etc etc.

I can't legally do as I please.

Neither can I.. If I had a show, I would have no choice but to pay the radiation robber baron.

Nothing's licensed at the moment but nothing is assembled in to a "laser". Well maybe the recent TEXLEM door prize but it's under 500mW. Thanks be to Aixiz! (the most amazing laser, blue-violet, 300mW)

Here (TX), as long as it can't just be "powered up and lase", e.g. the YAG head and power supply are not connected, it is not required to license it because it is not a laser, just parts.

I like Oz myself. Want to see it, drive/explore some of the outback if permitted. Hate flying in the sardine seats tough. Maybe by cargo ship some time if haha I get rich enough for a long trip.

[LELS]

I believe the law technically applies, at least if the state can enforce it on home hobbyists then the fed can. I had a conversation with the Texas agency that regulates lasers about a variable power DPSS 0-2W YAG laser I had here at home. Anything over 500mW and the state wants to steal $350.00 in tax (I mean, "license").

The official-on-the-phone solution when I told them it was outrageous to demand money from hobbyists is/was to "operate it below 500mW".

As for whether the gummint has any right to tell me what I can or can not do in my own hobby workshop, I believe no it does not, and as long as I have caused no harm and broken no law then it has no business sticking its money-snorting proboscis into my technical hobbies.

ok soapbox off.. just an opinion about what is right.

If you are concerned about spending $350 to become legally licensed in Texas this may be the wrong hobby to jump into. Lasers are nothing but money pits and that $350 is one of the few methods of keeping high powered laser systems from uneducated and potentially harmful laser operators from entering the public. Would you want an unlicensed driver on the road driving next to you? Would you want unlicensed teachers in the classroom with your kids? Would you want some unlicensed rich kid pulling out a 10w yag at Chuckie Cheese for his friends 16 birthday party? The government has all the right in the world to be involved with potential radiation exposure products of any size as it is for the general good of the public. A pain sometimes, of course.

[flecom]

If you are concerned about spending $350 to become legally licensed in Texas this may be the wrong hobby to jump into. Lasers are nothing but money pits and that $350 is one of the few methods of keeping high powered laser systems from uneducated and potentially harmful laser operators from entering the public. Would you want an unlicensed driver on the road driving next to you? Would you want unlicensed teachers in the classroom with your kids? Would you want some unlicensed rich kid pulling out a 10w yag at Chuckie Cheese for his friends 16 birthday party? The government has all the right in the world to be involved with potential radiation exposure products of any size as it is for the general good of the public. A pain sometimes, of course.

maybe we should attach a $10k tax stamp to anything >5mW... since obviously all laserists are millionaires and EVERYONE will obey the law (hah)

[gottaluvlasers]

LELS-

you make some valid points. HOWEVER- to impose a "tax" on a hobbyist for a Laser that sits in their *house* (contrary to your points of licensed drivers on the road and "public" use of dangerous things such as guns)is just ridiculous in my opinion. For Texas to charge Joe X to operate a Laser above 500mW in his/her home is WELL beyond the scope of trying to protect the public or keep tabs on Laser companies and their equipment. It is simply a way to make a few dollars. NY State has a fee for Lasers also. However, it is for PUBLIC use Lasers. It is not for someone messing around with some lab lasers in their houses.

OPCOM- are you sure there was this fee even for a hobbyist using a laser in a non-public fashion? This is the first i have heard of such a thing.

-Marc

[norty303]

Come on now guys, clearly the $350 does a great job of ensuring safety for all and sundry in TX. Just look at how much higher the injury rate is in the other 49 states...
With the variance system in place, surely there are already enough controls in the US. Is TX a poor state or something? I expect if they found a free natural resource like oil or something, they wouldn't need to tax the laserist in this fashion.

[LELS]

Come on now guys, clearly the $350 does a great job of ensuring safety for all and sundry in TX. Just look at how much higher the injury rate is in the other 49 states...
With the variance system in place, surely there are already enough controls in the US. Is TX a poor state or something? I expect if they found a free natural resource like oil or something, they wouldn't need to tax the laserist in this fashion.

Ensure safety, not really. As long as you pay the $350 and provide a current CDRH Variance you are auto approved. What the $350 really goes towards is authentically to the public on who is properly in a position to to do a professional laser light show and who is not. I agree with CT that this 'tax' should not be enforced on hobbyist but I guess in the states eyes even handling anything over 500mW is simple not a hobby anymore (Not my opinion, this is Texas opinion)

[norty303]

But surely the variance process ensures people are in a position to do a professional show or not doesn't it? Or is having deep pockets a significant indicator of how 'pro' you are?

[LELS]

LOL Norty. CFR1040 is free to fill out so I don't see it being a matter of deep pockets. I would say the deeper pockets comes in handy when you need an FDA approved laser system to use with that variance to make it valid.

Blacklasers is making it sound like if I get approved for a variance and use their lasers I am allowed to use them in the public, yet the site only sells lasers for private use. So which is it?

[opcom]

If you are concerned about spending $350 to become legally licensed in Texas this may be the wrong hobby to jump into. Lasers are nothing but money pits and that $350 is one of the few methods of keeping high powered laser systems from uneducated and potentially harmful laser operators from entering the public. Would you want an unlicensed driver on the road driving next to you? Would you want unlicensed teachers in the classroom with your kids? Would you want some unlicensed rich kid pulling out a 10w yag at Chuckie Cheese for his friends 16 birthday party? The government has all the right in the world to be involved with potential radiation exposure products of any size as it is for the general good of the public. A pain sometimes, of course.

Having to pay $350 does not prevent a person from doing anything. They'd pay it and do as they please. Maybe enforcement of the existing laws is a better approach.

For money pits around here is a customized 5 ton military truck, work in progress, but only about $20K in it so far, then there is my lab or workshop whatever it may be called. Maybe 200-250 spent there. The Dodge Dart I picked up a month ago is pocket change in comparison but it is almost ready to be driven. I don't think my laser hobby is going to make much of a dent.

I have unlicensed (and uninsured) drivers on the road next to me every day, many of whom do not speak English or even own the vehicle they are driving. That is why I drive an F550.

There is little risk of a kid at Chuckie Cheese's pulling out a 10W YAG considering the requirements for even a DPSS unit. Maybe a 1W. If I were 16 I would not be caught dead at Chuckie Cheese's unless it was my little brother's party. There's more risk of him pulling out his mama's .38 special he stole from her purse and showing it to his friends.

I guess I am not easily frightened by so unlikely a scenario of a kid with a 10W laser in a kiddie restaurant. I don't subscribe to hysteria, only to reason. Staying calm is good.
Reason says a minor should have neither item, and looks into ways to prevent problems. Parents? Education in school about dangerous items might work.
Reason also says a rich kid might easily pay the $350 and as easily lie in order to get a laser if he has no other choice.

[opcom]

LELS-

OPCOM- are you sure there was this fee even for a hobbyist using a laser in a non-public fashion? This is the first i have heard of such a thing.

-Marc

Yes. I bought the DP Nd:YLF laser out of an old scrap laser trimmer from work for $500 and they made me document the Texas law on this (made me do the work) to make sure it would be legal to sell it to me as a laser rather than as scrap. I had to track down the proper authorities and find the paperwork (the law) and give it to the safety officer at work. I can't blame them for covering their bases as it is a quite large and advanced company with a nearly perfect safety record and no scandals of any kind - haha a great place to work too.

I also grabbed the Zygo interferometer, they told me to take it as well. Sam of the FAQ has that laser now. The 5x4FT 8" thick granite slab in the bottom of the machine was another matter. I offered $1000 but they said they had a buyer for more money. It was an interesting job as I was totally inside this piece of equipment and that slab was very cool to lie on in the summertime in the warehouse.

pics of the Nd laser: http://bunkerofdoom.com/laser/spectraphysics/index.html
pics of the Zygo: http://bunkerofdoom.com/laser/zygo/index.html