needing someones help with finding laser show videos from Audio Visual Imagineering.

[fortheluvoflasers]

What information are you wanting to know about the Laser Retro show?

Several planetariums around the Southeast play it; not sure about your part of the country.

Here's one of the show listings:

http://www.thevlm.org/laser_retro.aspx

i am curious about where i could find a copy of that show. my parents and family would get a kick out of it because of their love for 80's music. i am sure most planetariums don't allow video recording.

[Stuka]

See responses # 6 and # 10 above...

Unless a planetarium is running a short promo, there's probably very little chance of seeing a "video" of any of those shows.

Laser shows are best seen "live" - even if a video were available, it really wouldn't do the laser show justice!!

Surely there's a planetarium or theater somewhere around Colorado Springs that runs laser shows?

[Bradfo69]

Hi Tyler,

Sorry you've been getting a run around. I can appreciate that you are frustrated. In your initial post, you asked about videos of shows from AVI. About the best you're going to find are what is on Youtube and some of what polishedball posted. As has been mentioned, laser doesn't translate real well to video so, it's difficult to find much out there. Companies such as AVI, Laser Fantasy, Lightwave and others that create full length laser shows and song modules primarily are dealing with corporate clients like plantetariums and theaters. Usually it's for a year lease and costs thousands. There may be some that sell rather than lease but laser content such as that isn't cheap either. Typically a 3-4 minute song will run anywhere from $75-$250 or more. A full length show will be in excess of $1000. It is artwork. And very time consuming artwork at that. Some older songs are going to cost less than newer material but nonetheless, it's not a cheap endeavor when you DO have the ability to buy it. Now... buying it means that you need a projector to play it on - and expensive methods to get the signal into the projector. Whether that's Pangolin's LD2000 package at $1500 or, an Alesis HD24 hard disk player, transcoder and geometric conditioner at potentially $1,500 as well. For a projector to actually play the content in your basement for your own enjoyment, again you're looking at a lot of money even if you possesed the know-how to build it yourself.

A "show variance" is generally necessary if you're going to buy or lease a legal projector from a laser manufacturer that emits more than 5mW. The manufacturer will want you to show them a copy of your variance and, as Steve said, I don't think there is any age retriction on obtaining a variance from the CDRH. There ARE other young laserists such as yourself. Gabe, here on the forum for example is 16 and creating his own shows without a big budget.

Can you buy a projector without a variance? Sadly, yes. There's lot's of chinese junk all over eBay that makes it through customs and let's face it... many of us wouldn't have been able to afford getting into this insane hobby any other way.

Honestly, I would spend some time here reading and studying everything you can. Ask questions and be prepared for answers or opinions you may not like.Take the good and blow off the bad. It's the internet and an open forum. There are lots of personalities but, by the same token, there is a HUGE resource of knowlege here as well. You can start off small and build your way up from there. I think I read where one member broke it out and put together a reasonable "cost of entry" of a few hundrd dollars using diodes, inexpensive scanners, non-commercial software and hobbyist engineering. Get to a LEM (laser enthusiest meeting) wherever you can. SELEM in North Carolina is August is the grandaddy of 'em all but, there are others held around the country.

Welcome to the insanity.

[Bradfo69]

Also... you said you would love to have a variance. While it is not exceedingly difficult to complete the paperwork (and I'll admit I had some assistance with mine), if you were to purchase something from Dan at X-Laser, they have a kit specifically designed to make it very, very easy for you to get one. The package is about $50. While you could start off with something directly from X-Laser, they have units pop up on eBay from time to time. Keep in mind though... that's to get your feet wet with some type of a laser albeit a simple one. To play the types of shows you're aspiring to will still require a good RGB with capable scanners and a means of playing the show and that will still be a sizable investment.

In retrospect, had I been smart, I would have not bought ANY laser gear and just gone all the various LEM's in rented luxury cars and gotten suites and high dollar meals as a vacation and just watched everybody elses stuff.


Or... at $6 a pop, I could go to 3 shows a night at a planetarium somewhere once a month for 6.92 years for what one QM costs... sigh.

[gottaluvlasers]

forthelove-

Perhaps its my own fault for not reading all of the above posts in great detail, but are you interested more in just sitting back and watching a video (or videos) of Laser shows? Or are you looking to (at some point) making your own shows with your own laser equipment?

Guys, Ill be the first to condemn someone for trying to go out with illegal equipment doing show and/or buying chinese crap to do shows in the USA. But it seems to me that Tyler caught the bug like we all did and the variance stuff really isnt an issue with him right now. As long as he isnt lying to us or being a mischievious kid (which i dont think he is). He just wants to start learning and "mess around."

Tyler- if you are looking to explore this hobby, learn the technology and some time down the road, perhaps do shows, than just start small and "dirty."

You can get very affordable, decent software for free or <$200. I believe some were mentioned above. Pangolin quickshow is pretty much the standard as it comes with a DAC (digital to analog controller. this controls your laser). But this runs $600.

You can buy or even build your own laser these days (445 blue or 650/660 reds) for next to nothing. literally. Maybe $50. Who cares about optics. who cares about good beams. You are learning.

Scanners- cheap chinese scanners can be gotten these days for about $100 or even less. They are crap. But who cares. your running them on your kitchen table.

use clay for optical mounts. or even cut up tin cans. Trust me, we *ALL* have been in your situation. If you are doing this for the love of the art and to educate yourself than myself and MANY others here will be more than willing to help. Don't worry about the variance stuff. I promise, the FDA isnt going to come raid you in your living room teaching yourself this art profession/hobby!

Variances apply to public displays.

Guys- lets not scare him off. he seems like a good kid and just eager to "play" and learn. Lets help him out.

Tyler, feel free to PM me or email me.

-Marc

[White-Light]

While you could start off with something directly from X-Laser, they have units pop up on eBay from time to time.

Just one word of warning, X-Laser were allegedly getting copied by a Chinese company. So if you buy from ebay it may be hard to know if you're getting a genuine X-Laser unit that can be varianced or a cheap Chinese copy that can't.

Having said that, if its for home use only, a variance is the least of your worries and at least a cheap projector might get you lasing.

[Bradfo69]

For messing around at home, you would do well to search for a REKE 500RGB. There has been a lot written recently about this little projector both here and on photonforums.com. Yes, it's chinese but recently could be had for as little as $209 plus shipping. For what it is... and I emphasize that... it's an amazing little piece of equipment. It's TTL, has 10k scanners that can be run o.k. at 18k, adjustable dichro mounts and no glue. It's ILDA compatable. There is a dealer called lasersman.com and a customer service rep that goes by Cherrylee that can help you although the pricing will likely not be that low anymore - more like $350-$400 but, you might get lucky with a discount coupon code or special holiday sale. It works well with the Quickshow that Marc mentioned above. For someone that actually creates shows, it's even worth having just to use for creation and not burn up hours on your more expensive equipment. The last time they were on sale, I bought two For personal enjoyment in your basement or bedroom and as a first step, you won't find anything better at that price. But... legally, it shouldn't leave the confines of your house here in the US.

[mixedgas]

that's the thing i tried asking SEVERAL laser companies & organizations about the variance including the company AVI who i tried to see if i could purchase shows from and the managing director said that anyone could sell shows to me but they would have THEIR variance taken away from them.
i also contacted a section of the government(FDA) who apparently gave them a variance in the first place said that most places don't even give variances to those wanting to purchase shows for home use.


He's trying to avoid his show content being used illegally and possibly copied. Your not a corporation, so if you misused it, he'd be answering to the folks that own AVI why their handmade content was out of control. It takes the AVI staff as much as three weeks to do one four minute song. Thus they tend to hold onto what cost so much to produce.

i would love to get a variance however...i am worried that it is just going to be a huge hassle just to get it approved meaning that they probably wouldn't give me a variance because of my age!

i am really losing patience here because i have done so much research on laser shows and i am not getting anywhere.

This is a industry or hobby that requires much patience.


i guess this is a really expensive hobby though.
will anyone who is reading this be willing to pass what my concerns are to more people??? i just don't see the issue with purchasing laser shows and legal aspects.:confused:

Laser shows are easily copied if you have the right hardware. That is why you can't have the source material. That is the issue, a high grade show takes weeks to make, with a graphics artist and a abstract artist. AVI's software costs alone are probably well in excess of 14,000$ for ONE Abstract and Graphics workstation. (Assumes Pangolin Pro and Custom Abstaract Gen software). So the issue is unless, you have a secure system (Pangolin) or can sign a binding contract respecting their content (Not that easy for a young individual) they will not let you have the data. I've been working with this for 20 years and would have a hard time leasing from AVI, because I use different software right now then Pangolin.

AVI's stuff is so good because they hire(d) Disney trained animators, and those do not come cheap.


Your hitting what is known as "The Time Value of Money" in Engineering. A person's time cost's money. This is a highly specialized art. There is no profit in Advertising from giving it away as a "APP", it must be performed live, and that is the crux of the issue.

Do you have any experience building electronics at the circuit or systems level? If so, we may be able to come up with a option for you, such as a low cost pair of 15K scanners, a sound card for control, and say Lissajous freeware for the software*. But once you start down this road, it will be a long, frustrating, and expensive hobby.

*Note to others, Lissajous.exe does not require DC coupling and thus can be done with little help. Downside is he looses graphics, but can do great abstracts.
He can them move on to Dean's abstract generator software when he is comfortable.

Net cost, maybe 300$ to build something with red diode or a used hene. You have to crawl before you walk, but most of us here will tell you this can be a expensive, frustrating hobby, and once you spend the money on the gear, it looses lots of value the minute you open the box. It also has low resale value.

Of course if you start with a spinning motor spirograph, you and your family can have a few hours of fun for about 100$.

Steve

[laserist]

Or for a lot less out of pocket - analog quadrature osc made up of a couple of op amp each is really old school...

[fortheluvoflasers]

[/COLOR]

Laser shows are easily copied if you have the right hardware. That is why you can't have the source material. That is the issue, a high grade show takes weeks to make, with a graphics artist and a abstract artist. AVI's software costs alone are probably well in excess of 14,000$ for ONE Abstract and Graphics workstation. (Assumes Pangolin Pro and Custom Abstaract Gen software). So the issue is unless, you have a secure system (Pangolin) or can sign a binding contract respecting their content (Not that easy for a young individual) they will not let you have the data. I've been working with this for 20 years and would have a hard time leasing from AVI, because I use different software right now then Pangolin.

AVI's stuff is so good because they hire(d) Disney trained animators, and those do not come cheap.


Your hitting what is known as "The Time Value of Money" in Engineering. A person's time cost's money. This is a highly specialized art. There is no profit in Advertising from giving it away as a "APP", it must be performed live, and that is the crux of the issue.

Do you have any experience building electronics at the circuit or systems level? If so, we may be able to come up with a option for you, such as a low cost pair of 15K scanners, a sound card for control, and say Lissajous freeware for the software*. But once you start down this road, it will be a long, frustrating, and expensive hobby.

*Note to others, Lissajous.exe does not require DC coupling and thus can be done with little help. Downside is he looses graphics, but can do great abstracts.
He can them move on to Dean's abstract generator software when he is comfortable.

Net cost, maybe 300$ to build something with red diode or a used hene. You have to crawl before you walk, but most of us here will tell you this can be a expensive, frustrating hobby, and once you spend the money on the gear, it looses lots of value the minute you open the box. It also has low resale value.

Of course if you start with a spinning motor spirograph, you and your family can have a few hours of fun for about 100$.

Steve

Steve, I have only a small amount of experiance with circuits. I remember working on a project in 8th grade that involved using wires and a circuit to power up a battery. Other then that we just learned about it from textbooks. Was there something you had in mind that I might be interested in? Still doing the best I can studying. I was not sure if AVI would be able to at least send me a hard drive of their laser show library if I got a laser licence/ variance and show it to them. Not sure they probably would not be able to even if I gave them a copy of an approval.
I guess I will try to keep researching.