Yet another stage collapse...

[gashead]

Tut tut, Live Nation.

You'd think they would know better.. it's not like they are so strapped for cash they can't afford to build a better rig...

I'm also wondering why the details were not agreed in advance - I've walked into venues and asked for my own 120amp feed and had some funny looks but I certainly wouldn't leave it to the last minute to discuss flying of my 10 tons of gear! WTF!?!

Sad when lining peoples pockets becomes priority over safety of members of staff, artists and punters.. Imagine if this had happened *during* the gig...

[Stoney3K]

Ok, some new info.

Radiohead wanted to rig all their video from the main roof structure but the engineer said no as it wasn't rated for the job. A 'discussion' ensued, the outcome of which was that the engineer was 'let go' and another engineer brought in who was prepared to sign it off.

That sounds like the NASA manager who basically sent the Challenger crew to their death got a new job.

Same story here, one of the engineer-minions had his doubts about the integrity of the whole thing (whether it be SRB O-rings or rigging strength) and he was told to either give the go-ahead or hit the road.

[dnar]

As a result of the State Fair collapse a few months back, the US is changing/has changed its regulations. Not sure what local regs are like in Canada.
There was a good discussion about it on Blueroom forum (theatre/technical oriented forum). In Europe/UK, it was generally felt that we had all the required controls in place which is why we see less of this sort of thing than elsewhere - although the argument could be that there are simply less gigs of the same scale.

To be honest, if you're erecting a faaaarcking great big structure like that, you'd really hope someone had the common sense to hire an engineer/someone qualified, regardless of whether any law requires it.

That's the funny thing about Common Sense. It's not so common.

But reading the other posts, it's sad they had an Engineer that said no and they let him go...

[flecom]

common sense is the least common of the senses

[planters]

I am surprised at the scale of the structure. I do not have ANY experience with the organization that rigs these, but is it possible that the engineering /design and set up evolves from the small and simple "club" venue and just isn't up to the task of this magnitude?

[depo]

^^ The scaffold used is the same/similar scaffold that is use on multi story high rise buildings capable of carrying alot more load than that. The roof looks like manufactured parallel cord trusses they would have a live and dead load similar to trusses designed for buildings of the same use ie entertainment centers etc. But the roof structure is only as good as its fixing points and the fixing points are only as good as the post supports, looking at the before photos they have loaded up the front of the roof putting a lot of load on the last fixing points either side of the roof and on those posts. Its the worst possible place to load up that roof.

At the end of the day if the story is accurate the second engineer is an idiot. If someone else whom is familiar with the temp structure wont sign off on the extra load and position alarm bells should have been ringing.

[DJ3pm]

The Indiana State Fair stage that collapsed WAS built by an IATSE crew, but the Radiohead stage wasn't. Now the engineer gets all the blame rather than spreading it around the union.

[mixedgas]

Planters wrote:

"I am surprised at the scale of the structure. I do not have ANY experience with the organization that rigs these, but is it possible that the engineering /design and set up evolves from the small and simple "club" venue and just isn't up to the task of this magnitude? "

End Quote

Something this big calls for a mech or civil engineer to configure, and a minimum of licensed riggers to set up.

I was taught a standard line about Scaff from some one long in the laser business. "I am not a PE in the State of Ohio, and I can not comment if the XXX is sufficient for the task at hand". As much as what I do borders on engineering as a technician, I have found that line VERY useful at times.

PE for non USA folks = Licensed Professional Engineer. Each state has a board that does licensing and administers a test. Usually you have to have N years working under a PE or in a similar job to get the license. The test is not a joke, its tough. So when the PE walked, if he was a PE, getting a second engineer to sign off speaks volumes.

Real question is if Engineer Unit 2 bothered to do any math.

Steve