New product!

[dzodzo]

isn't the standard angle 8 degrees?

also analogue R/B and TTL green? that's bad joke

[tsteele93]

TTL??? Waaaaaay out of date Omar.

Few comments...

1) Please make it known that these ARE NOT for sale in the USA. And if you ARE selling them in the USA, please post your manufacturers variance for this product.

Is that really an issue? I mean, first of all - we aren't the center of the universe. Particularly in the laser universe. Is it really his responsibility to tell us they aren't for sale in the us? Des he have to say whether they are for sale in Brazil, or the Netherlands or Bulgaria? Or is it JUST the U.S. he has to note?

And second, why does he have to post a variance? There are plenty of sellers here that sell without variances to the U.S.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know my way around here and I am a noob so maybe I am misunderstanding. But it seems like there are other Chinese companies selling without variances here...

I gotta say, as a hobbyist who just wants one of these for personal use - the price differences between western suppliers and Chinese suppliers is STAGGERING.

I'd gladly pay a premium for quality and safety, but when we are talking about prices that easily run 5X for a projector... And they aren't inexpensive to begin with... Well, you gotta see why the entry level hobbyist is going through China.

At $5k+ for an entry level 1.3 watt system vs $1,200 for a 1.2W Chinese RGB analogue DT30 system... Wow.

2) Please post a picture of the ILDA test pattern at your 60K scan speeds. At an ILDA standard angle (approx 10 degrees or 12. [lol-, i forgot- i think its 12 degrees]).

Agree, of course that is easily faked. Maybe even some video and pictures of guts/innards.

3) the quality *does* look a little bit better than some of your competitors. However- I still am very skeptical.

-Marc

Yeah, that is the trade off. It is a challenge to find a reliable and trustworthy supplier. Omar hasn't really made that effort here yet compared to some of the other Chinese suppliers.

Please don't think that I am trying to be difficult, but I don't know why a Chinese seller would be required to state that they weren't selling to the U.S. because they don't have a variance when so many others clearly do this...

Tom

[dzodzo]

to me problem with chinese projectors seems to be that they don't usually offer service, if anything breaks in your projector, they will gladly offer you another projector, but not free-of-charge service of your broken one

[White-Light]

Omar, just for clarification, the word is "guys" not "gays" .. just some info for you, for future use. Have a nice day

He he.

Just for reference Omar:

(straight) Guys:





Gays:





You definitely don't want to mix up the two. As straight guys get quite offended being called gays.

It often leads to 0 projector sales!

[gottaluvlasers]

Tom-

I always welcome positive and respectful feedback. And yours was both.

My issues and reasoning for my requests/comments are as follows...

1) MANY users on this forum (probably at least 80%) are here as hobbyists. Entry level users, beginners and even just people learning the technology. There are many, may times, if not all times I request proof of legality on projectors from any manufacturer posting their projectors for sale. We (USA members) are governed by specific rules and regulations. Whether we like it or not, its what we have to deal with. Alot of members as I described above, simply dont know these rules and regulations. Some know these rules/regs and choose to ignore them (for some understandable reasons such as financial) and others quite simply just dont know.

"Joe Smith" who is a member of this forum but a noob, perhaps sees this projector for sale and orders said projector. It gets snagged at customs (which, regardless of what many of you may *think* you know...Lasers are being seized left and right and i get MANY calls per week form distraught foreign laser system purchasers who are now "stuck."). And now this "Joe Smiith" finds himslef in what could be, some trouble. No, He isnt going to jail. No, chances are system will just be sent back to China (or where ever), but why go through all of this trouble? At least if the customer knew form the get go that he/she is taking a risk ordering lasers from over seas, than they assume the risk under known circumstances. Being mislead, or not knowing the entire truth is, IMO, not fair to a potential customer.

2) Also- MANY foregin (even some USA) Laser manufacturers "claim" their systems are "FDA Approved." This is why I ask to see copies of variances. I have posted mine many times, and there are QUITE a few members on this forum who have purchased systems from me who have asked to see my credentials both in private, and publically on this forum. I give manufacturers the benefit of the doubt. But, just like a perosn who is buying a used car- they want to see a "carfax." Someone who is buying or potentially buying a piece of equipment should know exactly what they are buying and what sort of important info they may need to know.

3) I love competition. Competition makes busines better. But competition isnt competition when its not on the same playing field. My systems start at $6000 because my systems are high quality, built 1 by 1 by me or others who earn a REAL wage and becasue i am in the USA selling a product to USA clients. Therefore, i have to follow USA laws/regulations. Chinese come along and sell their, pardon my french- CRAP made by people who earn 94 cents an hour and use hot glue to hold optics in place. And do not follow ANY of the same laws and restrictions i need to follow. How is that fair? I accept it. I know people arent going to boycot Chinese systems. And in all honesty- you are 100% right. For a hobbyists or home user, its fine. But i'll be damned if a foreign comany portrays their equipment to be "professional" and try to sell to *MY* potential market while not doing a FRACTION of the hard work i have to do on a daily basis. I refer ALOT of potential customers of mine to companies like X-Laser USA because i understand a $6000+ projector ISNT in everyones budget. X-Lasers makes ecellent equipment and it is done PROPERLY. So this is NOT a "competition" based annoyance. Its an "If you're going to promote your equipment to my potential market, you better make damn sure you're playing the game the same way i am" request and/or call out.

3) Asking to see scan patterns should be something we all ask of manufacturers who boast, what we all know (or should know) to be ridiculous claims. If these projectors can do a LEGITIMATE 50K pps scan at LEGITIMATE scan angles, i will personally buy everyone here a beer! (or an iced tea if you're not of drinking age. ) Come on...a REAL 50K scan set costs, by themselves, just as much, if not more than what these ENTIRE projectors are being sold for. How is that possible? I know of another laser manufacturer has the worlds first 90K scan systems. LOL- yet, the worlds best scanner manufacturer (Cambridge) has barely perfected 60K scanning. And THAT costs about $2100.

4) My customers can call me 24/7 (i may not always answer, but calls are ALWAYS returned. even at non-business hours) with problems, questions and issues. How is this done with china? YES- some companies are better than others with service. but for the most part its HORRENDOUS.

I can not tell you how many people i talk to, many of them here, who have lost THOUSANDS of dollars becasue of Chinese business practies, false claims and poor quality equipment. Sorry, but i will ALWAYS question and try to bring to light (no pun intended) true characteristics of foreign business' trying to solicit sales from people here. ESPECIALLY here.

I also praisese companies (even competitors) when i see good things. However, this is very rarely Chinese companies. I would LOVE for potential customers to compare CT. Lasers Luminance projectors with X-Lasers systems, DayStar Laser systems, KVANT Laser Systems, RGB Laser Systems, you know what- barring the "legality issue" CR Tec Lasers (form China) makes damn good (from what i have seen) systems.

Fair is fair. People here have a right to know what they are potentially purchasing.

-Marc

[tsteele93]

Marc,

I agree with what you are saying, I guess my question was that it seems like there are a lot of Chinese sellers here (and elsewhere on similar forums) who sell without variances and I wasn't sure why this particular seller was being singled out.

All of yor points are absolutely correct about the risks, although I do wonder what the actual risk of seizure at customs would be...

My take would be this:

A. If a seller has a variance they should by all means publish it.
B. But I think we all know that most, if not 99.9%+ of the Chinese sellers do not have REAL FDA variances.
C. It would be good to have a standardized post to go in for-sale threads from non-variances sellers that list the possible risks.
D. It would be interesting to know what the actual, real-world risks are to the buyer.
E. It would be interesting to know the seller's policy on customs seizure. I come from the laser pointer side of the hobby, and some sellers guarantee delivery and will resend if siezed.

In the end, it is really a shame that there are so many convoluted and poorly thought out laws regarding lasers. I don't know who is to blame really, you would think that ILDA might actually hold some of that blame because surely they have helped craft the laws we have now.

The way it is done now encourages breaking the law in nearly every step of the way from procurement to performance. The extreme difficulty in getting FDA variances for the products or performances drive consumers to break the law. The mass of red-tape you are forced to go through drives your prices up, and sends the hobbyist straight to China where you could go 50/50 in seizure (a number I would gauge as a very high over-estimate) and still,come out cheaper than buying legal.

And then the ridiculous red tape involved in performance variances adds to the motivation to break laws again...

Regardless of one's pov on the issues, it is pretty clear the system is not working well.

Please don't think that I am in any way suggesting your products are not quality or not worth what you charge. For a professional who needs it to WORK and needs support if it doesn't, I am sure that you are worth every penny. But it is a shame that there is no place, or way, for there to be a hobby level unit from a US company that could compete in price, even with a large quality premium included. But right now the price differences are so large that it just doesn't make sense for a guy who wants to have the coolest Christmas display in his neighborhood or the best light show at his parties to buy legal wester-made products.

Tom

[dzodzo]

But it is a shame that there is no place, or way, for there to be a hobby level unit from a US company that could compete in price, even with a large quality premium included. But right now the price differences are so large that it just doesn't make sense for a guy who wants to have the coolest Christmas display in his neighborhood or the best light show at his parties to buy legal wester-made products.

it can't compete because you won't find such cheap manpower that would build projectors for bread and water (maybe prisoners?)
if someone wants to spend $1000 for a projector that will last for one cool Christmas display then so be it, if it breaks afterwards, he spent $1000 for a toy that lasted a few hours of operation
or he can spend $6000 for a projector that will last for a lifetime and is legal to use for commercial shows ergo making some cashback and getting more value for his money
lasers are not intended to be cheap, if you don't have the money then get something less cool but cheaper (LED PARs, scanners and discoball...)

[Picasso]

I grabbed one of the smaller units for use at my desk mucking around with Ether Dream\LSX. Posted some basic cell phone pics. Will do a full review after I'm done testing/playing. But so far I am super happy with my order. Had a little fear when it was held in customs. Looks like it was opened and someone attempted to plug it in! All of the power cables and twist ties removed and placed in the box.

RGB870mw (R637nm170mw, G532nm200mw, B445nm500mw ILDA-30Kpps, max.40kpps. Analog
http://shup.com/~picasso/lasers/LEO-RGB870MW/

[Groenkoors]

Nice looking case that Picasso. I noticed there is no ventilation fans on the back or sides of it. How is the cooling done?

[james]

Omar, just for clarification, the word is "guys" not "gays" .. just some info for you, for future use. Have a nice day

How do you know he's not purposefully addressing the gays on this forum?

James.