Need a Sanity Check - QS or Beyond

[norty303]

Al, re-read my last post. You can already flip axis in each zone by using negative values on the size slider

[White-Light]

Al, re-read my last post. You can already flip axis in each zone by using negative values on the size slider

I did see that Norty and appreciate the suggestion. I just don't think its very intuitive as a solution as Joe Average wouldn't think to reverse the size slider. You have to remember you're very experienced with the finer and deeper settings, whilst most people I believe aren't. To actually have a Zone Invert Button for the X axis I think would be far easier for most people to pick up on as a solution.

Alternatively a dialogue next to the slider suggesting it can flip X would be as useful.

[badger1666]

hi al
i see the same as you ,but i did an invert on purpose to view txt correctly on a wall.
the preview screen is scrim view by default ,so nothing wrong with software
just your choice to have it set for wall view , but i do get you point, it would be nice to have
a midi or on screen flip button for instant ease of axis flip, for when you drop a power scrim down
so as far as i can see there is nothing wrong with your projector or pangolin software

[White-Light]

Hi Chris,

Yes it seems at the moment as though you have to choose between text and graphics or beams.

Given that's the way its always been for the last 20 years or so, I guess change would be a bad thing as many existing clients might resent their established techniques becoming reversed.

That's why I think unfortunately some way of reversing it is the answer rather than a default change to the way it works.

I'm not sure about changing zones on the fly though, I would have thought it better to change them at set up - after all you're going to know in advance if you're using a wall or a projector screen.

If zone settings have persistence, then Norty's solution may hold the easiest answer although I do think Bill needs to add extra text so people realise that size isn't just a size control but also and axis flip control as well. Whether or not people also need to be aware of the need to flip the axis as standard, is another moot point. Maybe a text file could address that. Just have to wait and see what pangolin decide to do if anything.

[Pangolin]

I can have Aaron look into this tomorrow, but my gut feel is that you're over-thinking this.

The ILDA Standard is that positive voltages represent "right, top, and front" and that negative voltages represent "left, bottom and back" (on X, Y and Z axis respectively).

If a projector is used for audience scanning (or rear-projection of graphics), you've got two choices, or perhaps three...

1. Click the Invert switch on the projector
2. Indicate you want inversion in the particular Projection Zone or zones
3. Indicate you want inversion in the Projector Settings (which effectively changes all zones)

A line moving from left to right should look "left to right" regardless of whether the projector is in front of, or behind the screen. BUT IT CAN'T DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME!!! So something has got to change to make sure left-to-right images in the computer create left-to-right projections. One of the three items above will make it happen.

The posting on our forum seemed different by the way. That guy was talking about a left-to-right image in the computer creating top-to-bottom output on the projector. Could be a zone problem, a projector problem, or a master projector settings problem. One disadvantage we had was that the guy never provided any pictures or video, only text. Nevertheless, Aaron was able to help him through a private telephone call...

Bill

[White-Light]

Hi Bill,

1 & 3 don't work if you want beams PLUS graphics and / or text where the graphics / text are projected onto a surface as both beams and graphics to a surface require different orientations in X. You can never have both correctly orientated when you use Invert X.

2 Is the solution. However, probably what is needed is some additional dialogue next to the Size control in the zone to make it clear that it can also be used to flip X.

I would say that beams and graphics should probably be juxtapose by default. However, given its always been the other way, I guess a sudden change might confuse some long standing users so my gut says the real solution is the extra dialogue and let the user decide which way they want to set everything.

[danielbriggs]

Al,
You have the fantastic ability to create issues where there are non whatsoever.
Congratulations Sir. on adding another feather to your cap.

I also like the notion you employ to always assume all others are wrong and only yourself can be correct.

[taggalucci]

My immediate (relatively "new to Pangolin") expectation would be that the default behaviour, when all axis-flip switches are in their off position, would be as follows:

• Beams viewed from the audience's perspective would match that shown by the preview
• Front projection would be more usual than rear, and therefore graphics and text would appear as shown in the cue

Therefore my expectation would be:

• That the X scale when positive, in the zone for beams, would match that shown in the preview (when viewed by the audience)
• That the X scale when positive, in the zone for graphics and text, would front-project as shown in the cue

I get the ILDA spec regarding upper right = +v, lower left = -v etc, but that's just a physical specification of the expected deflection (IMHO) separate from the relationship between cue/preview and output. Perhaps not?

Any other behaviour seems counter intuitive, though understandable. Thanks White-Light, I've learned something new about my set up and was surprised not to have noticed this before.

[norty303]

This scenario has existed way before QS and Beyond and yet people have managed to work it out up until now. I'm not sure extra dialogue is required.

I'm fairly sure the size slider discussion has been had here more than a few times since I've been on the forum.

[taggalucci]

...people have managed to work it out...

Yes. Not intuitive IMHO, but easily worked out.