TraceIt Question

[tsteele93]

Ok, in my quest to do something simple, like take a cartoon jpg and trace it and project it, I have finally stumbled on to traceit.

I cannot seem to actually output the traceit file to the laser projector. EDIT: This is working now, not sure why but on one of my startups, it decided that the connection to the FB3 needed to be reset and now it is sending output to the laser...

I.E. While I am editing, I would like to see how it looks, then turn the laser output off and edit, then turn it back on and see how those edits look.

Is that possible? I would ASSUME so since there are a bunch of buttons that say KILL LASER OUTPUT but I don't have any laser output to kill...

Thanks!

Tom

P.S. For some reason, my trace it help files don't work. When I click help, it has a nice list of things to click for help on, but when I do click on them, it says that navigation to the webpage was cancelled - as if the help files are stored online somewhere and I am not able to reach them for some reason.

[tsteele93]

One other question... I was working on a file. I loaded a jpg and did quite a bit of optimization on it. I saved it as an ILD file and closed Trace-It.

I came back to open the file to continue working on it and... I can't. It doesn't look like I can open the ILD file that I saved in Trace-It.

Is that right?

So I would have to work on it and never close the program because at that point I am done? From then on, I'd have to find another program to continue editing the ILD file?

I'm very confused about some of this apparently. I can't believe that is correct. But if I try to open the .ILD file with trace-it, I get a crash and it tries to send an error report (but can't because it is confused by the fact that I don't have an e-mail program on the computer since I just used web-based e-mail.)

I'm starting to wonder if it is me, or the software? I feel like I am continually beating my head against the wall doing even the simplest things.

[White-Light]

Can you put up the JPEG out of interest?

[tsteele93]

Sure, but please don't misunderstand. I'm not having trouble editing it in trace it. I was making decent progress. It was when I saved it, shut down trace it to grab a bite and came back up to continue editing it that I was surprised that I couldn't continue where I left off because trace it doesn't seem to load the ild file it just saved.

Perhaps I should have saved to lpc or another format ?

http://aipetcher.files.wordpress.com...4/grayson3.jpg



I'll try to upload the ild as far as I had gotten, just need a place to put it... I used to have a nice godaddy file server but I got tired of paying for it...

[White-Light]

The Jpeg is too complex.

I also think you're making it too hard for yourself by not experimenting in QS.

1. It has the instant show it now you want - ie straight to laser from the trace programme.

2. You can alternatively drag the trace from the trace preview into the window an empty workspace cell and it becomes a cue

3. You're making it hard for yourself using Trace IT. The tracer built into QS will trace 99% of logos etc that are traceable. There's very little virtue to TraceIt unless its to try to salvage something you can't trace in QS.

I asked you to put the jpeg up as an example.

I managed this in QS in 30 secs (settings colour separation / number of colours 4) and most of that time was loading the file and examining the file after tracing!:





The double lining is caused by the red drop shadow around the cape etc.

[tsteele93]

http://www.4shared.com/file/qcM5KYSo...l?refurl=d1url

That should show you what I was doing... I was taking all of the center flesh tones out of the legs and headed towards a pure OUTLINE version with as little complexity as possible while still hopefully getting a decent looking finished product.

I don't know if I am communicating well, I am trying to load an image like that one - which I freely acknowledge is too complicated - and I'm willing to spend some time taking huge amounts of traces out and trying to maintain the overall look and feel of the original image, while creating a trace that a 30k projector can actually scan. I THINK that I can do it, if the software will step aside and let me! LOL.

I'm willing to put the time and tedium in to do it, but I get frustrated when I stop half way through and go to eat, and come back to load the file I just saved and find that I cannot do so...

I SORT OF get it, I saved as an ILD file and it is designed to load image files and trace them, BUT it is also designed to let you EDIT that trace once it is in the program, so I am surprised I can't save the file I am working on and come back where I left off and continue.

Maybe you can and I am missing it. Or maybe you can't and it is kind of a big oversight on someone's part... but you SHOULD be able to do that. It isn't logical to think that you have to keep it in volatile memory until you are done and then you can no longer edit again once you have saved it to file. That isn't right...

Tom

[Stuka]

http://www.4shared.com/file/qcM5KYSo...l?refurl=d1url

That should show you what I was doing... I was taking all of the center flesh tones out of the legs and headed towards a pure OUTLINE version with as little complexity as possible while still hopefully getting a decent looking finished product.

I don't know if I am communicating well, I am trying to load an image like that one - which I freely acknowledge is too complicated - and I'm willing to spend some time taking huge amounts of traces out and trying to maintain the overall look and feel of the original image, while creating a trace that a 30k projector can actually scan. I THINK that I can do it, if the software will step aside and let me! LOL.

I'm willing to put the time and tedium in to do it, but I get frustrated when I stop half way through and go to eat, and come back to load the file I just saved and find that I cannot do so...

I SORT OF get it, I saved as an ILD file and it is designed to load image files and trace them, BUT it is also designed to let you EDIT that trace once it is in the program, so I am surprised I can't save the file I am working on and come back where I left off and continue.

Maybe you can and I am missing it. Or maybe you can't and it is kind of a big oversight on someone's part... but you SHOULD be able to do that. It isn't logical to think that you have to keep it in volatile memory until you are done and then you can no longer edit again once you have saved it to file. That isn't right...

Tom

Tom -

I just did a test trace using QuickTrace, saved it, closed QuickShow, reopened QuickShow, edited and recolored the cue I traced, saved it, closed QuickShow, reopened QuickShow, etc... it works fine.

Are you saving the workspace after making changes?
In QuickShow (and Beyond), you need to save the workspace after making any changes...

Make ALL your changes, THEN convert (export) the cue to another format...if you really need to!
Life is much simpler if you'll just save to the default format!!!

There's that patience & practice thing....

[tsteele93]

Hey Stuka,

I'm not having a problem saving in quick trace and re-opening. As you say that works fine, it just doesn't save to anything that can be used by anyone not using QS.

I encountered that weirdness with Trace-It. I'm not real sure how trace-it fits in to all of this, since it doesn't officially come with QS, but I guess owning the FB3 entitles me to download Trace-It for free.

When I load a jpg in trace-it, and do some work and save as an ILD file, I can no longer come back and open that (or any, I suppose) ild file.


So once I load the jpg into trace-it and do some editing, I cannot save it and come back later to edit more. Now it MAY save to some other format and let me come back. As you say, native formats are often the way to go... I will try that and see.
Does that make sense?

Thank you all for being patient with me. I hope you understand that while I may be a PITA, I'm arriving there out of a genuine interest in trying to understand this better. I just wanted to load a jpg, create a playable laser graphic, and then edit it and optimize it and color it and make some minor improvements to increase the fps and such.

I know in another post that you said I might be going about it wrong by having expectations based on my experiences with photo editing software, but I would very heartily argue that those programs have really got a lot of use and maturation under their belts and they really ARE the best way to do a lot of very similar things we need to do I order to create a good graphic.

For instance, when adding text and doing trial and error on font choice, size and placement those programs are very efficient in time use, mouse clicks and cursor screen travel compared to the laser editing software.

Same goes for most of the wire drawing and adjusting points. It isn't that I'm blustering in here with MY idea of how it should be done, I'm coming in with expectations based on a very refined software that does almost the exact same things in many respects and does it well.

I'd lke to do more than argue about it, so I hope to make a video showing you more of what I am talking about with one of my favorite (and inexpensive) photo editing software, paint shop pro. I think it can be had for about $60, maybe less, and it does some of this kind of vector editing and raster editing really well. In fact, if there were a way to do my editing there and export I'd be in hog heaven!

I'll work on that and see what I can come up with...

Thanks again for jotting up with me, I am sincere and not just here to pick a fight with Pangolin. I just happened to have bought Pangolin as my entry into projectors and think that I have some ideas that could make parts of it better.

Tom

[White-Light]

I still think Tom you're expecting the laser software to do much more of the work for you than it can, and I think you'll find that with any software.

I've taken 30 mins out this morning over breakfast to work on the Batman (Robin character) for you.

This was the result using nothing but QS alone on the original trace:





It's now between 14 and 15 FPS. It will still be flickery but probably acceptable.

The point is the tools are there to edit traces you just have to take the time to learn and use them.

You seem to be searching for a more accurate trace but the the more accurate the trace the more detail you get and with lasers detail is the enemy. Lasers draw outlines best.

Straight away I can tell you from experience that if you were takeaway the R badge and reduce the eyes from circles to lines you'd gain maybe 3-4 fps.

If you want to know how I worked on it, I zoomed in then used the point removal tool to remove lines a point at a time. I then simplified the trace. I added back a couple of lines to fill in the gaps and re-coloured as necessary. I also lassoed and pulled a couple of points into line to close gaps in some lines.

That was it. What was required was patience and a bit of work. No trace programme will ever do that for you!

All you get from a more complex programme is a bigger colouring palette and a bigger selection of drawing tools, but at the end of the day, they're only useful if you're drawing from scratch and have the skill to do that. Even then, you'll need to keep it simple and keep drawings to outlines.

If you want the QS file, it's here:ROBIN FINAL.qfrm

Al

[Stuka]

Hey Stuka,

I'm not having a problem saving in quick trace and re-opening. As you say that works fine, it just doesn't save to anything that can be used by anyone not using QS.

I encountered that weirdness with Trace-It. I'm not real sure how trace-it fits in to all of this, since it doesn't officially come with QS, but I guess owning the FB3 entitles me to download Trace-It for free.

When I load a jpg in trace-it, and do some work and save as an ILD file, I can no longer come back and open that (or any, I suppose) ild file.


So once I load the jpg into trace-it and do some editing, I cannot save it and come back later to edit more. Now it MAY save to some other format and let me come back. As you say, native formats are often the way to go... I will try that and see.
Does that make sense?

Thank you all for being patient with me. I hope you understand that while I may be a PITA, I'm arriving there out of a genuine interest in trying to understand this better. I just wanted to load a jpg, create a playable laser graphic, and then edit it and optimize it and color it and make some minor improvements to increase the fps and such.

I know in another post that you said I might be going about it wrong by having expectations based on my experiences with photo editing software, but I would very heartily argue that those programs have really got a lot of use and maturation under their belts and they really ARE the best way to do a lot of very similar things we need to do I order to create a good graphic.

For instance, when adding text and doing trial and error on font choice, size and placement those programs are very efficient in time use, mouse clicks and cursor screen travel compared to the laser editing software.

Same goes for most of the wire drawing and adjusting points. It isn't that I'm blustering in here with MY idea of how it should be done, I'm coming in with expectations based on a very refined software that does almost the exact same things in many respects and does it well.

I'd lke to do more than argue about it, so I hope to make a video showing you more of what I am talking about with one of my favorite (and inexpensive) photo editing software, paint shop pro. I think it can be had for about $60, maybe less, and it does some of this kind of vector editing and raster editing really well. In fact, if there were a way to do my editing there and export I'd be in hog heaven!

I'll work on that and see what I can come up with...

Thanks again for jotting up with me, I am sincere and not just here to pick a fight with Pangolin. I just happened to have bought Pangolin as my entry into projectors and think that I have some ideas that could make parts of it better.

Tom

Morning Tom -

I'll give you an A+ for enthusiasm, but a B- for following direction...

I know you're not trying to be a PITA (thank-you for that!), but for a new guy you ARE starting to come across as a bit "high maintenance"!

You seem to be very hung up on the fact that a certain aspect of the software (one most experienced Pangolin users consider very trivial), doesn't work the way you think it should, versus really learning the software and exploring the capabilities and what it can do. To each his own, but I will offer this additional advice before moving on:

* This is generally a VERY supportive community, and several folks from around the globe are offering all kinds of recommendations and assistance to help you make the most of the Pangolin gear you bought. If you continue to stay hung up on something the software doesn't do the way you think it should, instead of exploring its true capabilites, you're probably not going to get a lot of support in the future. The QuickShow package is the result of several years of beta testing and input from experienced laserists, DJ's, and VJ's all over the world, and it does what it does by design. There are a LOT of users on this forum that would have embraced the chance to start off with the equipment you have available to you!

* Consolidate your Q & A sessions into a single thread. I think you have 2 or 3 threads going that are essentially discussing the same thing ~ focusing on one will help us old farts keep up with what's going on!!

* Start a NEW thread, and specify exactly what it is you are looking for in a laser software package, how you think it should work, specific features you need, etc. There are enough non (and anti) Pangolin users on this forum that something might be out there that fits the bill. If you go that route, I would caution you to look beyond just the software, and see what is available as far as user support, community of users, show and graphic content, etc.

* If you decide to get rid of the Pangolin gear, list it in the Buy/Sell section of this forum. Chances are it will sell very quickly, especially if you offer it at a good price!

And I still think you need to at least TRY a beam show using your current gear (I discussed that somewhere in one of your threads).
You can get a cheap smoke machine suitable for home use at Guitar Center, Party City, etc.; everything else you need, you already have!

Good luck to you, which ever route you go.