Building or buying a outdoor waterscreen?

[Rizard]

Hi guys,

This year I have to do a lasershow outdoor on water like last year ( http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...-first-show!-D ) and I want to do something special. Of course extra lasers is what i like to do. But first I was thinking about flames, fountains etc. Then I came with the brilliant idea to do some graphics on a waterscreen. I was searching the internet for some ideas. But with 5000 dollar for a system that didn't work. Also it doesn't have to be a 25 meter high screen, 4 or 5 meter will do more then the job.

Now I was thinking to make one for my own only I have a lot of idea's to do it and don't know what's the best solution. Is there someone that has experience with this? And can tell me where I have to look out for etc? Maybe I will develop my own and if your guys like the result I can make them for you.

Thanks already for your input!

[blowfly]

I have been pondering this problem of projecting onto mist or water too but haven't investigated much. I have been wanting to get into fountains and jets ever since seeing some of the projects they have going at Disney. If you figure anything out please post about it! Love your photos from last year.

Mike

[Rizard]

I did some "research" lately because I wanted to make something like this:


But then with water. If you want I can give you some info about that.

I will make a CAD drawing tonight and if i succeed I will post a method that I think will work to make an outdoor water screen. Should be a simple device.

[Rizard]

Well a promis is a promis

I did some drawing in Autocad and this is what came out:

It's an "nozzle" made out of 2 pieces. So you can adjust the space for the output

This is the final product:


This is the base:


This the top with the inlet:


And this is the view from the side. The gab you see here is 3mm but can be adjusted to a larger gab, depending on the needs of the user. Big spray or small, big pump or small. Multifunctional (but very practical to test for me. Don't have a clue how big my pump or gab has to be):


I'm hoping this has a change of success but if someone has an suggestion or comment please let me know!

Cheers

[chad]

Neat! let us know how it goes. I think however that you are going to need way more water flow and pressure that you think.

chad

[White-Light]

Neat! let us know how it goes. I think however that you are going to need way more water flow and pressure that you think.

chad

Depends on whether you're indoor or outdoor. Water screens interest me a lot and I've looked before at HB Laser who sell them (although their units are v. expensive!)

On the flow point, their 17m x 45m outdoor kit uses 2 x 55,000 Watt 3 phase pumps!!!

http://shop.hb-laser.com/HydroScreen...Set::2081.html

That is some major pumpage / water flow.

By comparison their 4m indoor screen uses 120 lpm at pressures of up to 5 bar. The pump they sell for that purpose is 900 Euro. Whether or not you could source a different cheaper pump that would do the job, I don't know.

Also, on their indoor screens they use up to 3 sets of nozzles, some food for thought.

I also haven't seen it mentioned so HB probably don't use it but I would thought that the best screen would have been obtained not through big nozzles but through laminar flow as those exhibition cascades you see that use laminar flow always have a very smooth glassy surface with very little surface disruption.

I guess some more checking around experimentation is needed although HB laser are the only people I know who sell screens off the top.

[Stoney3K]

The problem with a 'glassy' laminar flow is that it's not opaque enough to display any graphics on. The laser beams would just pass straight through them and refract, just like they would pass through a regular glass window.

Yes, there would be some scatter, but it's very marginal compared to a water screen made with turbulent, fine-droplet spray nozzles.

Falling down screens (with nozzles overhead) are better indoors, but outdoors you're going to need a lot more kick if you want to combat things like wind and weather.

That said, I really like your design and I was already looking at a "World of Colour" kind of show for the Observe, Hack, Make event in 2013 in the Netherlands. Maybe we could help each other out here.

[Rizard]

@ White-Light:
I've seen these systems on the internet. And yes they are expensive. But I want a smaller screen. And when you go smaller you need a lot less power. I hope mine will be around 3 or 4 meters high. Cause if you see the pictures from last year you'll see when I use a 17 meter high one, I wash away my audience . Btw that would be cool to do once ;p

@ Stoney3K: Ghehe yes maybe we could help each other

I'm thinking to send my design to a local metal shop and ask what it will cost to make. If it is around 50/70 euro's I'll think I give a go to make it. I designed it so you can adjust the opening and so do some experiments with it until you have the right water screen with the pump you have for hands.

I saw Hydrofoor Pumps online and they are around 100/1500 new. They pump around 5000 liters per our with a pressure around 5 bar, thats around 1,4 liter (a bottle of cola) a second. Hope that's enough. Maybe I will visit a store with pumps and ask if they want to do some tests before I buy. Or just buy a big second hand

If it works I have to think about how I'm gonna display it. On a floating device or if I hammer a pole into the water so it's just above the water

I have currently no work so lot of time to experiment

[Stoney3K]

@ White-Light:
@ Stoney3K: Ghehe yes maybe we could help each other

I'm thinking to send my design to a local metal shop and ask what it will cost to make. If it is around 50/70 euro's I'll think I give a go to make it. I designed it so you can adjust the opening and so do some experiments with it until you have the right water screen with the pump you have for hands.

You can also try to get a prototype (or maybe a scale model) printed through 3D printing techniques like Shapeways. As long as the material is water- and pressure-tight, using plastics in a nozzle is not really a problem -- metals have the issue of corrosion when they are exposed to water.

If it works I have to think about how I'm gonna display it. On a floating device or if I hammer a pole into the water so it's just above the water

I have currently no work so lot of time to experiment

You may need to work out whether you are using it for a fixed install in your garden's pond or in a mobile installation on site. For the latter, your're going to need some kind of mounting implement that's removable (obviously ). Maybe a simple dead weight ballast made out of some cement blocks or pavement tiles could serve as a solid base, however, that means some way to sink and retrieve it safely. (Another idea would be to use submersible tanks like on a submarine -- fill them with water and they sink, blast them with compressed air and they surface again).

If you have a solid mounting point underwater, it can also serve as the platform to house a submersible pump. Having the pump at lower depths means there's more back pressure on the inlet, so more nozzle pressure up top.

Also, consider mixing your water spray with simple compressed air to form a good jet. Adding air makes the water flow less laminar and gives you more pressure.

[JStewart]

Google 'PEM 1854'

James