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Thread: Need Laserscope guru. (possibly more..lol) Greenlight HPS

  1. #21
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    Im still digging around... But i think the only answer would be a service card of some type. I have experiance with smartcard security, but I just havent found out what model atmel chip they are using. What I am a little PO'ed about is AMS's attitude towrd me. They have been of no help what soever. But yet they are the ones who last serviced the unit in 10/2011. I am pretty sure the unit was decommisioned right after that and sold to me a few monthes later. I would think they could provide some info on what was done to it, and what its service history is. Without a service card it looks like im only going to get 30-40min per fiber card. These are not cheap since they are one time use and include the fiber. I wish there was more info on the security system used. I dont know if the technical manual has anything on it...

  2. #22
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    What I am a little PO'ed about is AMS's attitude towrd me. They have been of no help what soever. But yet they are the ones who last serviced the unit in 10/2011. I am pretty sure the unit was decommisioned right after that
    To understand better where they are coming from remember that I asked you early on in this thread that this laser was not going to be used for patients. I accepted your answer at face value, but I have no skin in this. I have a lot of experience with this industry and there is a dark side to the medical laser leasing/owning and operating industry. There are "clinics" where out of spec lasers operate or where off label, unproved treatments are offered. Less onerous, but still concerning is that this laser could harm an untrained operator. You may be OK, but they don't know who else might have access to this unit.


    You say this laser was decommissioned. I don't know what this means exactly. What in that process would make AMS less worried about the issue I mentioned above?

    Have you asked AMS to do a service call? Does the previous owner have this service card that you are looking for and does a new unit when shipped from the manufacturer come with service cards?

  3. #23
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    I'm getting darn close to asking for the invoking of the PL Informal Laserscope Cloture rule. No good can come out of a Re-purposed laserscope in most hands. No good can come out of publishing the data on how to do full conversions in public. We've had this experience time and again on this forum. After the Moscow and Bugarian high power pulsed laser incidents, not to mention our close call with our famous DJ. Have we not learned that ultra high peak energy data does not belong where it can end up in Maker Faire?

    Even the famous DJ now agrees, or did last year on the phone. After watching what happens when one of these goes wrong, DJ A. learned that it is not good to mess with one without some serious resources and precautions. Three cracked dielectric mirrors in a fraction of a second is a serious lesson.

    AMS obviously went to great lengths to prevent easy hacks. That "block" is there for a decent reason.

    ALS1980, Some data, known by PLers who are laser professionals or very good technicians, gets reserved for people we have met in person. For very good reasons, some which serve the public. Admittedly some times we also have trade secrets. We need to know why you want to do this conversion.....

    Is it worth the risk exposure to PL to continue this discussion? Is it worth the slight, but serious, risk of a "timed out" fiber being reused on a PT?

    Its one thing to ask how to control the psu. Its another thing to hint at bypassing the card.

    Planters,
    If its anything like CT Scanners, Service cards will only go to indivduals who have completed the needed factory training. The contract will stipulate the valid uses of the card. Usually its only a very large health care provider who can qualify for a full mode card. The card will time out in N days, or will require the return of the card under contract, with serious civil penalties for failure to comply. Also the card will only service a given machine.

    A basic card will be possibly be provided to a owner. This is to comply with FDA regulations requiring end user staff to be able to ensure the machine complies with specifications and to perform a basic calibration. Hence the mentioned 5 minute timeout, just enough to calibrate the sensors. There will be higher levels of service cards for those who really need them.

    On the CT, with the basic dongle, you could confirm performance with a phantom and align the PT couch. In theory you could go further, but it would be extremely time consuming vis a vis having a full dongle. You would see basic error messages, but not the troubleshooting data stream with the basic level. This complied with the FDA minimum service rule. Full dongle required two weeks of resident training at the factory.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 01-10-2013 at 07:24.

  4. #24
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    Steve,

    Yes, that is my general understanding, but thanks for the fill in. Re this thread, I also am concerned that the issue is not with fundamental optical/electrical operation, but with work arounds. Let me emphasize. I have no reason to doubt that asl1980 is not completely up front, experienced, careful etc. But, to the extent that this laser is rare in the post medical community there is little to gain and much to risk by providing a means of operating this laser outside of the established channels. Remember OTHERS are watching.

    asl1980,
    I am also thinking that if I was in your place, I would want to convert out of these consumable fibers. If you were going to display then the fiber lifetime would be a drag and if you are planning to use it as a lab pump (like me) then accessing the beam right after the OC is more efficient. I am really curious if the beam quality out of the cavity is much superior to the older arc pumped models due to the lower thermal distortion and to any other improvements in the cavity design. The AMS specs for divergence are for the consumer and are very high and after the fiber (essentially meaningless).

    When these lasers fire they produce a soft high pitched whine. What is that? I can't hear 25kHz, I know that and so it isn't the Q switch. Is this from the PSU?

  5. #25
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    Agreed.. successful hack-info for these does not belong in the 'public domain'... and, *NO*, it's not about 'pro's protecting their client-bases', pthththththh - it's about not being a part of just having the info out there, 'in the wild'.. als may very-well be fully 'qualified' / experienced, etc, to wrangle with a system like this.. but the majority of the throngs of 'LS-virgins' reading this thread, offline, are very likely *not*... Sorry, but, imo, you really need to have some prior-experience / training / understanding of pulsed-hazards, before just being handed the keys, to - *especially* 120W+ of 532..

    I think any further 'help' hacking this sys is-best done in PM, not open-range thread... I happily and fully accept any and all criticisms of my diamond-hard opinion on this..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  6. #26
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    Why is it OK to discuss other systems that have been chopped up, modified, "hacked" or otherwise had any built in security feature bypassed for hobby use, but not this one? The older laserscope systems probably have the most documented and detailed ipublic nformation out there. Why is this case so different? And to address the patient use question again. Why would I be looking for manual control of the unit if it was to be used for medical purposes? I have 5 sets of sterile fibers/cards that would work just fine for that. You could not use this system for patients without having the system regulate the procedure. Regarding AMS. I would expect a company to release a products history to a new owner. I did not ask them to assist in any conversion plans. I simply wanted the service history considering they were the ones who last touched it. I also inquired as to if it still had a service plan on it. I feel as tho I have a right to know that at least. And as stated before. I am willing to chop it up to the point that it would never even resemble a medical device. I would be happy to rip a part off or dissmantle it if it would ease anyone's fears of its intended purpose.

  7. #27
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by als1980 View Post
    Why is it OK to discuss other systems that have been chopped up, modified, "hacked" or otherwise had any built in security feature bypassed for hobby use, but not this one?
    Discuss? ..as-in, 'these systems are amazing; these systems are really-bright', etc.. Fine.. but, I'll quote-myself to re-make the point:

    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    ...successful hack-info for these does not belong in the 'public domain'...
    ..Yes, I realize / acknowledge this is only my / one *opinion*, and No, I am not the 'gatekeeper of the Laserscope info', and, Yes, 'if you don't do it, someone else, will', etc, etc.. but, if you want to be a part of the part of society that encourages responsability, along-with 'freedom of information', then, you do what you can.. And that means, at the very-least, 'metering' to-whom certain info is given-out.. Again, 'discussing these' is fine; public-posting of 'how to hack' / get to work, for just any and all to scarf-up / use at-will, IMHO, is-not..

    Quote Originally Posted by als1980 View Post
    The older laserscope systems probably have the most documented and detailed ipublic nformation out there. Why is this case so different
    ..and that is a *big* lament, of this forum and the industry, as a whole.. Wanna see what the 'everyday people' / inexperienced *do* with that 'public information'? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t65_JJrLFZ8 ..and, I hope you'll 'pardon the expression', but there are *far* more of these type of douchebags out there, slinging these things around like they're squirt-guns, than you might think.. Do you really think it's a 'good idea' to have such-like ding-dongs modding 120+ Watt KTPs?? It was yahoos like this, that led-to FAA moratoriums / stricter-Regs, specifically with 'YAGs' (KTPs) and originally, similar clueless / careless-behaviour that won us all having the US's draconian set of Laser-regs written in the first-place!

    ..Again, You may-be well qualified to discuss / mod one of these - but not everyone is, so.. that's what PMs' are for, not public-domain threads... does that help ya unnerstan mo bettuh?

    PM-ya in a bit..
    cheers..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  8. #28
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    Jon, You could not find the apartment one with the baby in the high chair down range?

    Giving you a example of how poorly documented this laser is on the net. Set the laser to 10-20 watts Qswitched, Goggle up, try to push the fiber through a 2x4. Only do it without a medical fume extractor. The carbonized, pine tar fumes, in a confined space, will easily kill you. Where is the warning for that?

    I can give you two more examples.

    The KTP532 mod schematic on the net has a major error when implemented on most models. It can kill the lamp psu if not corrected. 2nd. The mod ROM for the older models has a watchdog interrupt that the hacker did not deal with. When the watchdog kicks in at 9 to 20 minutes, the laser rapidly goes to full RF and Full lamp.

    That is why we have our little rule. Jon's helping you via PMs, that is fine.

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 01-13-2013 at 16:43.

  9. #29
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    Quick post. I made so,e progress. It seems its a flow problem. If I restrict flow I can now get the machine to fully boot. I have to find a paper I read about installing flow restricters. I wonder if I'm missing one. Its looks like someone why serviced the machine changed or moved a lot of the hoses. I wouldn't even be surprised to find a coolent line installed wrong. Anyone have any pics of how the tubes should be set up near the pump and filter assemblies? I really don't want to waste to much time anymore converting it. I'm fed up with it. Any advice on the tear down ,as far as what pieces to keep and/what could be disgarded? Just such a shame

  10. #30
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    Firstly, don't tear it apart as that is a one way street and will remain an option in the end. If the last service call from a reputable? company or the manufacturer had been done and had left a functional laser then it is very unlikely that when you are trying to use it that something as fundamental as the hoses are all screwed up. I am guessing that maybe you are not the first to try to convert this machine after taking it out of use?

    Did you ever PM Day Star Laser?

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