Pangolin ScannerMax

[planters]

I don't think Jon was suggesting a conspiracy. Rather, that if the new scanner motors are running on a competitor's driver then we are probably a lot further from a complete deliverable system from Pangolin

[andyf97]

What a lot of woffle for nothing, who cares what is on a driver. if the scanners are low price enough for most PL members and out perform there rival DT's then they are worth trying, otherwise no point wasting time speculating or making a hype for nothing. It is obvious that Kvant and some chinese companies already have some of these scanners to play with so sit back and let them play with them.

Scanner driver schematics have been freely available for years on websites, complete scanner designs fully documented in patent applications. so there is no need to re-invent any wheels. What I suspect is that they are copied from an original design with some tuning to make them different from a patent. Technology changes which allows patents to be copied.

Patent pending on the datasheet is hype to make stupid people believe these are totally new, lets see some patent application to prove that.

On the performance point, I do around 200 events per year with only a few are with graphic content, so any super fast scanners would need to be cheap as hell. If kvant start to use these scanners then the price MUST be very cheap.

Is a product good enough to be scrutinized, if so send a set to EyeMagic guys to tear to bits just like Pangolin did with eyemagic reputation.

That's it from me until I see some big companies using them, I am not interested even in 5 more minutes time lost.

[planters]

Andy,

Easy there. Firstly, no one has any of these scanners yet, except for the developers. The scanner pair you see is in a Kavant projector, but was not put there by Kavant; it was retro-fitted. If you rarely do graphic shows and the quality of the graphics,when you do them, is not a priority then you are right and low speed scanners will be fine and undoubtedly less expensive.

Fast, powerful, compact and inexpensive driver designs may be available, but I for one am unaware of any source for the actual drivers and that is why some of us suspect that under the time pressure to present @ P. West, Pangolin may be "borrowing" a Cambridge driver. This is just speculation of course.

Patent pending may sometimes be used as a marketing ploy, but I am definitely not a stupid person and the presentation, on some of the design elements, that Bill made @ SELEM showed that they were making some good and reasonable improvements.

Where I will criticize Pangolin is in this dribs and drabs release of information. I am in the market for some improved scanners and so I have spoken to a distributor of Eye Magic and Cambridge models who states the sales have dried up in anticipation of the release of these new "super scanners" from Pangolin. We were lead to believe that these would be available by P. West. Now, maybe no driver, no pricing, no availability date and viewed by appointment only...hmm.

As soon as they have had a chance to get a breath after returning from the show, I will contact them and ask for some specifics. If this sounds like just "competitively priced and available soon" then it may be EM for me.

[White-Light]

On the performance point, I do around 200 events per year with only a few are with graphic content, so any super fast scanners would need to be cheap as hell. If kvant start to use these scanners then the price MUST be very cheap.

Well obviously because Kvant don't fit Cambridge or do they? (We both know the answer to that).

Scannermax were designed with Cambridge performance in mind Andy not DT or similar, so don't expect them to be really cheap in either price or performance. In fact I believe Bill said previously that the bearings alone were as much as some entire cheap scanner sets.

Also, Pangolin own some Kvant and some RGB projectors of their own so the fact they're in a Kvant, is probably as a result of a retro fit into one of their own Kvant projectors. Whether or not Kvant will adopt them as standard fitment is another question entirely and one to direct to Kvant once they're out. However, the fact they're in a Kvant now means you can assume nothing other than they were fitted into it for either demo or testing purposes.

When I made my original comments re the scanner block above a) I had never seen Cambridge scanners in an open case and b) I didn't realise that Pangolin scanners were designed to be retro fitted directly into some brands existing scanner blocks or to put it another way, its my understanding from the Scannermax website that you can buy the scanners either as a complete unit ie scanners, drivers, scanner block or you can buy the scanners themselves if you have a scanner block that is compatible and simply fit them into it. I suspect the latter is what you're seeing here which would explain why there are Cambridge drivers.

As for there being nothing new here Andy patent wise, if these can outperform Cambridge 60k's, something we've yet to see in person, then clearly there is something new. However, there's little reason to doubt the claims given that I understand Bill Benner has worked as a consultant for Cambridge on scanner design.

So far as the comment only for graphics goes, I'm disappointed in you Andy as a professional. Even I can see a difference on beams specifically multi coloured fans with discrete colouring and similar, between CT's and cheaper scanners. You get cleaner more precise separation with CT's due to their precision. Ok the average clubber might never notice or at least may only think nice lasers, but the difference is there.

Equally I have no doubt if EM want to buy a set and test them, they'll be able to Andy.

[EyeMagic]

Hello Andy,

I am happy to let you know that our reputation was not damaged by this ''tear to pieces '' of our product. Simply because you cannot persuade someone who has our scanners in front of him, that they do not scan as they say they do !
I fact, we had so many orders for the new scanners that we had only 2 days holidays for Christmas and new Year combined. And the nicest part was that the orders were mostly coming from the same customers (repeated orders).

Now, about performance, the new ScannerMax promises 100usec small step and 500usec full step times (you can find this in their brochure). Our scanners deliver just the same. So, how will you get those exotic (125Kpps) numbers that everyone is talking about, I really do not know.

Don't get me wrong. The new scanners from Pangolin will surely be great when they reach the market. And we really and sincerely wish every success, as we always do, to any product that promotes this market, even if it is competitive to ours.

Now, let me take the opportunity and inform the forum that we release the new (third) generation of our EMS, called EMS-7001. Aluminium-titanium rotors, precision polished (20-10 S/D) lighter and stiffer fused-silica mirrors with high power 99% coating, improved drive. Available in approx 20 days. With a unique feature : 3 week money-back guarantee. If they do not perform as advertized, you get your money back. No room for hype here.

Finally no, we will not buy one piece of the scannermax, just to tear it to pieces and/or publish anything. We did not do it even with the ''unbelievably similar design'' of the widemoves with our EMS-3080 scanners, released approx 5 years before the widemoves...

All the best,

Tom Kamaras
EyeMagic

[planters]

Tom,

Thank you for addressing this topic. I will be blunt. Your sales representative here in the US was lamenting the effect of the anticipation that the Pangolin scanners was having on his market. However, I don't disbelieve you and it may be that Pangolin is not on the radar screen, AS FAR AS A SCANNER MANUFACTURER, internationally.

You state that your sales are largely return customers. Again, I can accept this as I own one of your scanners. I am happy with it and if the new 7001 scanners will be available with 8mm mirrors for a true scanned 5mm aperture.then I now have a time frame (20 days) for Pangolin to demonstrate a competitive product.

As a competitive manufacturer you probably should not divert this thread, so I will. Can you link to a brochure or spec sheet comparing your EMS scanners (to each other)?

[White-Light]

Now, about performance, the new ScannerMax promises 100usec small step and 500usec full step times (you can find this in their brochure). Our scanners deliver just the same. So, how will you get those exotic (125Kpps) numbers that everyone is talking about, I really do not know.

Tom I have no intention of getting into any debate between you and Pangolin over specs or any other aspect, just as I avoided it before. You both have products and markets for the same. Whether any product makes the claimed specs is for each manufacturer to prove.

However, just to correct one small thing in order to maintain what I perceive as fairness in this thread, to my knowledge, I don't believe Pangolin have released any data or claims regarding either speed or pricing. So I believe any talk of speeds or pricing in relation to ScannerMax, are purely consumer speculation at this stage.

[norty303]

However, just to correct one small thing in order to maintain what I perceive as fairness in this thread, to my knowledge, I don't believe Pangolin have released any data or claims regarding either speed or pricing. So I believe any talk of speeds or pricing in relation to ScannerMax, are purely consumer speculation at this stage.

It's in the specsheet on the ScannerMax website Al

http://www.scannermax.com/

http://celebritysites.com/beta/scannermax/pdf/SM5.pdf


Interesting that ScannerMax doesn't appear to have any apparent branding links with Pangolin. I guess that's to try and remove any association with the entertainments industry when dealing with 'serious' applications and buyers. Quite sensible really.

[White-Light]

It's in the specsheet on the ScannerMax website Al

http://www.scannermax.com/

http://celebritysites.com/beta/scannermax/pdf/SM5.pdf

Maybe I'm missing something but I see no mention of speed Norty, at least not in PPS terms, nor price.

[Stuka]

It's in the specsheet on the ScannerMax website Al

http://www.scannermax.com/

http://celebritysites.com/beta/scannermax/pdf/SM5.pdf


Interesting that ScannerMax doesn't appear to have any apparent branding links with Pangolin. I guess that's to try and remove any association with the entertainments industry when dealing with 'serious' applications and buyers. Quite sensible really.

I just saw a VERY small Pangolin banner at the bottom of the as page, so yeah, the association is very subtle.

Although, for anyone that has read up on Bill's family history, there is no doubt in my mind that the name for the new scanners is a tribute to his Dad, which is very cool...