What Do You Charge For Laser shows?

[Stiffler]

Hi Everyone,

I've been thinking about adding lasers to my lighting & special effects business, and am basically looking for some input. Obviously doing this will require that I have a variance, that my equipment has a variance, anyone else using the equipment has a variance, and a bunch of paperwork. My motives are simple: There is less competition when compared to moving lighting, less equipment is required for high quality production, and lasers are REALLY cool. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the going rates are for lasers & laser operators, and this is obviously a very important consideration. So this brings me back to the title of this thread, what do you charge?

I am also looking for any insight or free advice that any veterans of the industry might have.

Cheers:-)

[absolom7691]

I don't do commercial shows but I think a lot depends on the size of the venue, the complexity of the lasers (beams or graphics or both), multiple projectors. If you are using graphics, are you using from a stock library or are you creating your own artwork? There is a lot to it and unfortunately, I know some of the pros on here are dealing with the fly-by-night guys using non-varianced cheap chinese junk and stealing $2000+ gigs by charging cheap rates. Good luck in your endeavours! Lasers really are the bees knees in lighting!

[Stiffler]

Hi absolom,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, there does seem to be a lot to this. With other lighting, there are pretty standard prices for fixtures based on wattage, features, etc, but lasers really are a special case. I have hired a few different laser operators over the years, and the costs have varied widely & not necessarily made much sense.

-Eric

[Bradfo69]

I don't have enough time to respond fully tonight but, there are a couple good threads you can search for on here that may give you some answers. It's not really cut and dry depending on what your doing. I know people that won't even pick up the phone for less that $3,000 while I've done 1 brief effect for $295. BUT circumstances are different in most cases. I charge what I believe the market will bear in my area for what I'm doing AND, my gear doesn't leave my facility. If I took it out of here and did something in an unfamiliar venue then I'd charge a lot more.

[astatic]

The problem is you have to compete against people who do shows for bottom prices and do that as there core business
Maybe you will have less competition in the USA but over here i got a feeling we get "new company's" every day.
Because some company's drop there projectors on the market everyone thinks he can make money by just buying a projector and software and start doing lasershows.
Most customers don't care about the quality anymore, they only see the numbers.
If you deliver a 2W RGB projector for a small venue and a other company comes with 5W projectors which are WAY overpowered for that job the customer only sees 5 is more then 2 so that's better!
But here are some numbers:
In the Netherlands you have to think about €500,- / €1000,- (ex. VAT) for a live show (8/10 hours employee inclusive) with two/four RGB projectors (2/3W) with less then 1000 visitors.

There are also some hobbyists/company's over here who would only think: "i'm gone do that show no matter what" and ask less or promise an amount of RGB projectors for less that it will be in balance, just to be sure they will do the show (there not only ruin the market but they also ruin there own business if you ask me).

I'm not talking about programmed shows with animations and outdoor shows, then the price raises quick because of the time and equipment and employees it needs.
There is nothing wrong with competition, but we have to take care of our business!

Because it's not your core business i would say, stay out of it.
Lasers have a higher maintenance window then other light effects, like alignment, cleaning or repair.
If you don't have the knowledge you have to send it away and that takes at least 2 weeks before you got it back.
It's not that you can screw a laserdiode into a projector and it's running again like with other light equipment, you won't come away with standard light equipment knowledge.
A lasershow needs a educated employee when the lasers are running for safety reasons, because of that you don't have time to focus on other light effects during the lasers
When your on a job and also have to take care of other equipment you need to calculate an extra person to operate the lasers.

Before starting this project, ask yourself if there will be a market for your plans.
Because if you start and you won't have enough work to drive a healthy business you only ruin the market, by going down with the prices and just to get work.
It's a simple calculation, more competitors the lower the prices.

But if you start, i wish you all the luck with it, i like it allot!

[Stiffler]

Thank you for the detailed reply Astatic:-)

When I started working in the lighting business back in 2005 there wasn't a lot of competition in the nightclub/DJ end of the business. Sure, there were other light jockeys, but none of them were trying make a career out of it; it was either a hobby, or they were lazy. Once my former partner & I started making money by providing lighting for special events, a bunch of kids went to guitar center, purchased some cheap lights, and started under cutting us (in some cases providing & operating a rig for as little as $150!!!). While there is still money to be made on the the tour/corporate end of the business, I am WAY too small for that, and the investment is just too large. Plus, I have ZERO interest in being a rental house. And while lasers are expensive, so are Clay Paky Sharpy's & any decent lighting console. Sure, the market for lasers might be smaller than for other lighting, but there is far less competition, they are smaller & lighter, and I don't need a truck load of equipment to make them work. I also think that lasers are under used on account of the consumer (tour, nightclub, etc.) just not knowing where to look. Maybe I'm over estimating the potential market, but if I get stuck with lasers that I can't rent I can always take them to LEM...:-)

[astatic]

Hi stiffler,

When your getting into the last sentence you talk more like a hobbyist then making money with them for living, not saying all of the LEM visitors are only hobbyist because still some are making money with it for living.
You have to check how many laserists are over there.
In here everyone in Holland will be a direct competitor if i may use the word competitor, i see most of them more like colleagues (where not that large in land if you know what i mean).
Over there your dealing with a part "state" of the USA which will be your potential market, do some research to find out if your the only one and if there will be enough potential customers which you can sell your product/service too.
Will there be enough events/party's where you could rent your equipment and try to find out what will be there budget.
You could also ask some events if there will be any interest for renting lasershows without having the equipment already, just to get a feeling.
Check on youtube if nearby events used lasershows!
I know how much some of the equipment costs and i also just started, all my money i make with my day job i spent into my company so i could deliver quality products for a fair price.
But another aspect would be, safety, are you willing to do a necessary course?
Some others here can tell you what is necessary in the USA to do shows.
I've heart someone last week who said to a newcomer on PL:" don't buy anything but try to visit a LEM first"
I think that's a good start to get in contact with laser enthusiasts which could show you all about the software and hardware.
You can see what kind of equipment you would need, because there are some differences in usage.

I think the best time for making BIG and easy money on shows has passed, a while ago.
The only serious money can be made when having bigger events where you need special lasers which not everyone has in there standard equipment.
Also try to be new in the business (do not just compare prices between company's but try to do something special which the other one doesn't have), what i mean is:"don't try to copy others".
I think that's the only way today you could still make some money with lasers and have fun in your job, which i think is the most important part of your job!

[norty303]

One thing that has changed in very recent years is that cost of laser projectors has decreased significantly. And yet I see laser operators still trying to charge prices for kit based on prices 10 years ago. A 3W RGB projector is now about the same price to buy as a decent moving head, and yet you can hire that moving head for under £100/week. You try and rent a 3W RGB for the same money. And yet I don't see any difference between the two. I work on hire rates as between 5 to 10% of purchase price, meaning its paid for between 10 and 20 jobs. This is fairly standard in the rental business.
I charge £175 day for me, plus travel plus kit hire, but I have some slightly reduced rates for packages for common jobs (e.g. Pair of RGBs for club night in London)
I find, you charge what you can, depending on the job. For the market I'm mainly in, budgets are not huge, so charging 'corporate' prices would just mean I sit at home with my lasers all year

My laser work now pays for itself plus I make a bit of profit each year, and get to go to 4 to 6 festivals, and other one off events each year. It's never going to make me a rich man but it does pay.

[sbk]

One thing that has changed in very recent years is that cost of laser projectors has decreased significantly. And yet I see laser operators still trying to charge prices for kit based on prices 10 years ago. A 3W RGB projector is now about the same price to buy as a decent moving head, and yet you can hire that moving head for under £100/week. You try and rent a 3W RGB for the same money. And yet I don't see any difference between the two. I work on hire rates as between 5 to 10% of purchase price, meaning its paid for between 10 and 20 jobs. This is fairly standard in the rental business.
I charge £175 day for me, plus travel plus kit hire, but I have some slightly reduced rates for packages for common jobs (e.g. Pair of RGBs for club night in London)
I find, you charge what you can, depending on the job. For the market I'm mainly in, budgets are not huge, so charging 'corporate' prices would just mean I sit at home with my lasers all year

My laser work now pays for itself plus I make a bit of profit each year, and get to go to 4 to 6 festivals, and other one off events each year. It's never going to make me a rich man but it does pay.

Well, that's very cheap prices imho... Installing, running safely and maintaining lasers are not really comparable to the same thing with a moving head, without speaking of the effect which is more unique and powerful, so they have the potential to be more expensive to rent. I really don't see how pro laser companies could exists with such these rates...

And a decent 3W rgb (not a chinese one) is still costing about twice or more the price of a decent moving head. So actually I feel much more confortable sitting in my couch, than breaking my back installing heavy projectors and running them for an entire night for only a few hundreds.

Also you can do discounts occasionnaly of course, but try to never do discounts for a first time customer! Once they got used to cheaper prices, you just won't be able to increase it to your usual rates...

[absolom7691]

And a decent 3W rgb (not a chinese one) is still costing about twice or more the price of a decent moving head. ...

Not exactly http://www.newlighting.com/12986/new...Fel7QgodRyUA9A.