What am I missing?

[Stiffler]

I have seen a fair amount of posts from members/Chinese manufacturers selling 3, 5, 10+ watt UNVARIANCED projectors, and I have to ask myself :What sane human being would spend thousands (tens of thousands?) of dollars on a piece of equipment that they can't legally use in public??? To me that's sorta like buying a sports car that you can't drive. I can understand building your own multi-watt projector for the experience & gratification, but buying one escapes logic; Am I missing something?

[swamidog]

people who:

1) don't know they're illegal
2) don't care they're illegal
3) people who are using them legally for private purposes

I have seen a fair amount of posts from members/Chinese manufacturers selling 3, 5, 10+ watt UNVARIANCED projectors, and I have to ask myself :What sane human being would spend thousands (tens of thousands?) of dollars on a piece of equipment that they can't legally use in public??? To me that's sorta like buying a sports car that you can't drive. I can understand building your own multi-watt projector for the experience & gratification, but buying one escapes logic; Am I missing something?

[buffo]

Many people here on PL are dedicated hobbyists who have thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars invested in their equipment. Even the people who have built everything themselves have often spend many thousands of dollars doing so. (I know I have!)

They do it because they love lasers, not because they plan to go into business doing commercial laser shows. Sure, some people eventually decide (like I did) to try to do some commercial work, but most don't want to deal with the hassle. (Plus, most people realize that laser shows are never going to pay the mortgage, not unless you end up being *very* successful, which is quite rare...)

If you ever come to SELEM, you'll see all kinds of home-made gear, and some of it rivals the very best equipment you can buy at retail. Yet most of the people you'll meet at SELEM are not professional laserists - just hobbists who only run shows in the living rooms or basements.

Does it really seem that strange to you that someone would spend a bunch of cash on something they love, even if they know they will never make any money doing it? Think about how many people you know that own a piano in their home, or have several nice guitars... Are they in a band? (Probably not...) Having a laser projector in your living room is no different. It gives you pleasure, so if you can afford it, why not do it?

As for me personally, I know I've spent thousands of dollars on RC cars, Painball guns, and other trinkets for some of the many hobbies I've been involved with over the years. And I would have been into lasers back then too, except that until about 10 years ago, it was tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get started with lasers, whereas other hobbies were relatively cheaper. The only reason I didn't have a laser projector in 1990 was because I couldn't afford one back then.

But now that prices are coming down, I'm actually looking to expand my collection. Not just so I have more projectors to do shows with (I already have enough), but because I want to be able to do things in my home and at SELEM that I can't do now. And lots of other people feel the same way. (Check out Dkumpula's "laser dance studio" that he built in the top floor of his house... He will never make any money with that, but you gotta admit it's cool as shit!)

That being said, you are correct in that it is illegal to import an uncertified laser projector into the US, so every time someone does this they are taking the chance that it could be seized by US customs officials. True, you could make the argument to them that you intend to certify the unit yourself (and there is actually a box on the import form to specify this), but then they're going to ask to see your manufacturer's variance, and they'll also want to know why the proper paperwork wasn't filed BEFORE you imported it, like the rules say you should.

But as for why people want to have a projector, even if they can't use it to make money, well, it's because some people really love laser shows, and they're willing to spend thousands of dollars to be able to do that in their own home. And yes, PL is full of people just like that.

Adam

EDIT: Swami posted while I was composing my reply. I'd like to address his third point though.

Even if you don't intend to USE the projector illegally (that is, you only intend to use it privately in your home), it is STILL illegal to import it before it's been certified.

True, the customs people are overworked and understaffed, so a small order of one or two projectors probably won't get seized, but even so you are taking a chance ordering a finished projector that is uncertified...

Just thought that point should be explicitly stated.

[Stiffler]

Fair enough.

-Eric

[Bradfo69]

Also, keep in mind that a Chinese (or otherwise) company can sell projectors anywhere else in the world without having it comply with the US laws of needing a variance. This is a world wide forum - not just US - same as eBay is a world wide marketplace.

[LEDpaint]

You can retrofit them to make them compliant. It's not all that hard, just involves a few safety additions and the confuzzling CDRH paperwork. Also, there is at least one compliant Chinese laser manufacturer out there.

[norty303]

I see Brad spotted the big one....

The myth of laserists (And indeed other human beings!) outside US borders is true! Somewhat rough around the edges (think Mad Max), but we're trying to catch up...

[swamidog]

yes. thank you for clarifying that.

i built my projector. i will go through the variance process at some point. until then, i'm only using it in my living room.

EDIT:[/B] Swami posted while I was composing my reply. I'd like to address his third point though.

Even if you don't intend to USE the projector illegally (that is, you only intend to use it privately in your home), it is STILL illegal to import it before it's been certified.

True, the customs people are overworked and understaffed, so a small order of one or two projectors probably won't get seized, but even so you are taking a chance ordering a finished projector that is uncertified...

Just thought that point should be explicitly stated.

[Bradfo69]

I see Brad spotted the big one....

The myth of laserists (And indeed other human beings!) outside US borders is true! Somewhat rough around the edges (think Mad Max), but we're trying to catch up...

LOL. Hey, I've seen a lot of US hobbiest rigs and I've seen a lot of the UK projectors and I MEAN NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE but, you're not the ones needing to "catch up". I'm often amazed by the build quality some of the UK bretheren as compared to here. Unbelieveable amounts of detail, pride and custom CNC machining going on.

Actually, in the grand scheme of things, I think the US market for chinese and other foreign projectors is pretty small compared to the rest of the world. Partially the laws I'm sure but, also because they're just used much more for entertainment in Europe and other parts of the world. It's on the rise here I think but, in general there are far more events regularly exposing audiences to lasers outside the US. If the demand from audiences was greater and a company would anticipate a lot more sales, I think they'd do the work necessary to make their equipment US legal with a variance. But, if I can sell 500 to clubs in the UK, doing what I already do, why do I want to put all the time and effort into making it meet US laws for perhaps 20 more projector sales? Especially when some people will still buy them illegally anyway and it's not my problem once they're out the door.