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Thread: Laser nightlights and assorted stupidity

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Laser nightlights and assorted stupidity

    First off: I apologise if this is in the wrong section. I haven't been around in these parts in years and my knowledge of what-goes-where is a little rusty at best. Feel free to move this thread if necessary.

    A few of you here might remember me from two or so years ago and how I was arse-terrible at making all of the photons.

    But putting that aside for a second, something rather interesting's popped up recently involving a laser device that's not a projector, but nonetheless a device that's available to consumers. I figure the people on this board would be the most knowledgeable when it comes to matters like this.

    Let's say we have a hypothetical laser-based nightlight.

    Let's say this hypothetical device uses a single 445nm diode hitting a diffraction grating as the main source of light output, with the beams exiting an aperture and diffuse scattering off surfaces such as walls providing illumination. Each beam leaving the aperture is below 5mW, but you've plenty of beams (diffraction grating), and the total of the emitted beams would be on the order of a watt or so.

    Let's also say the lead designer of this hypothetical device makes ridiculous claims along the lines of

    Our product has a mechanism to prevent reaching such heights and therefore not capable of interfering with aircraft. It is a lamp and you are pointing a LED flashlight to an aircraft. If you were at a local airfield beyond the fence you be viewed as a flashlight.
    or claims the product to be entirely eye-safe, while completely ignoring known dangers such as the blue light hazard or the the effects of blue light on your circadian rhythm:

    The laser is no more dangerous than an LED light if a normal distance is maintained. I would not advise anyone to hold even the smallest light directly to their eye.

    Maintaining a 2 foot distance between your eyes and the laser is advised. My children sleep with this lamp in their room and have no problems.
    or

    The diffuser mechanism is a diffraction using Young's experiment. This is not as simple as it is pictured the DG (diffraction grating) has to be within 1/4 the wavelength of the laser to eveningly distribute the beams without having a center area of concentration hence a safety issue.
    while clearly having an abject lack of knowledge as demonstrated by quotes as:

    The Firefly laser lamp does not burn and is not possible to burn. Lasers that burn in the market are 405nm have IR. A 90mw laser you can burst a black balloon, at about 
450mw you can start to burn a cigarette but hold it there and wait. The blue laser we use is exponentially 
far from that and more like the light of a florescent lamp with no heat. You need to multiple our laser about 1000 times to have any heat
    or obvious technobabble along the lines of

    Yes. *REDACTED* is my company and we have been researching the feasibility of a blue laser for two+ years. *REDACTED* has taught us a lot but is not the final end game. It has always been intended as a proof of concept for what we saw as the potential for blue lasers to fundamentally change the lighting industry. The blue laser is far more significant than just merely the color. We have a patent on our blue laser diode component design itself, aside from the *REDACTED* shell. It is completely different than the green component. The *REDACTED* shell is a convenient way for us to produce a giveaway for contributors. But its the BLUE LASER that's the most compelling component for several reasons. First, technologically it is constructed using stable state technology unlike the green which uses a crystal diode. Crystal diode is fine for normal environments, but the stable state is shatter proof and with our patent-pending heat spreader the blue stable state laser can withstand up to 150 farenheit. Couple that with the special calibration we use for the blue that allows it to reveal objects in a smoky room and we have what we believe can be a very compelling unit for a broader array of future uses - emergency lighting being one. You could say what we are giving away is a blue *REDACTED* of sorts, but the intent is be able to further the blue laser technology that has some really powerful potential to change the lighting industry. The photographs for the blue laser are not retouched. They are original blue laser photos. They just happened to be in the same settings as the ones we took awhile ago for the green. All that said, we hope this will increase the confidence that the giveaway you'll receive is a real lamp that has all its legal, safety, UL, CE, Rohs, FDA/CDRH, and independent laser compliance officially approved. And, with blue lasers pointers today fetching around $200 in the marketplace, even at the higher levels on our campaign we hope you'll see this isn't such a bad deal!
    I cannot place links but if you look a Frontgate and search for lighting use sort $400 to $599 you will see a green and blue laser light for 550 in change something like that. the picture they have is green for the product so click on it. You are getting a great price for a proprietary laser that we make ourselves. We will have updates of more information and some unique aspects of this product that people will find exciting.
    Now that all of that's out of the way, let's assume for a second that this hypothetical product does exist. How would one go about making sure such a product never makes it to market, or preferably, never leaves the drawing board?

    Because, unfortunately, this product is a thing, the guy behind it seems to have his head up his arse and apparently they've got a whole company behind it.

    I would like to think that being a crowd-funded project, people will begin to see just how much piss and wind is holding the thing together and pull out before this becomes a thing. On the other hand, the company claims to already have a green version of this laser nightlight on the market.

    They're US-based, in which case I have no idea how they got the thing past the FDA in the first place.

    I would also like to think that this person is just a brilliant troll but that'd just be wishful thinking.

    EDIT: someone else has just pointed out that despite their claim of the nightlight having no 'central area of concentration' from the diffraction grating, their photos of both the green and blue versions show otherwise.
    Last edited by goninanbl00d; 04-08-2013 at 09:41.

  2. #2
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    I have reported it - their reporting options are a bit limited, but I filed it under Prohibited Rewards - seemed the best option.

  3. #3
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    I agree, the project is a complete crock of ****. Shame the backers that have pledged over $100k have fallen for the nonsense. - it does make me wonder!

    Forgive my ignorance, but apart from colour, what differentiates this "invention" from that of the $40 "3D laser" effects that litter eBay?

    James
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  4. #4
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    swamidog is offline Jr. Woodchuckington Janitor III, Esq.
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    things,

    i reported it with a note saying it's not cdrh compliant and is illegal and dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Things View Post
    I have reported it - their reporting options are a bit limited, but I filed it under Prohibited Rewards - seemed the best option.
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

  5. #5
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    "His Blue lazer" Is actually a 3.8mm osram pl450b So that could go up to about 80mw or so. As for the rest of his claims.. total bs. He might be able to squeak in with the cdrh. Don't know for sure. I wouldn't want ~80mw worth of 450 blasting around all night. IF he is using a ND filter and underdriving the diode to 5mw then his smoky LONG exposures are at best misleading.

    chad


    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.


  6. #6
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    Most concerning part is he's openly stating you can leave it around kids - even with all those scattered beams, only takes 1 look into the aperture and you've got some pretty nasty eye damage. Hopefully we can get enough people to report it to kickstarter to get the project shut down, I can bet he doesn't have any of the certifications he wildly claims.

  7. #7
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    Chances of this guy not taking the money and running? Seems like he sure thinks his lamp is magic so I think he will attempt to make them. Sorry it took 2 years for him to come up with this....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Picasso; 04-12-2013 at 11:29.

  8. #8
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    Thumbs down ..sheesh.. what's next, a laser toothbrush?? >_<

    .."The Firefly has been certified or complies with [snip]...FDA/CDRH..." Pthththth.. *Prove it*...'Dick'.

    ..Some helpful / informative links:

    http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Cons.../ucm166649.htm

    http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersO.../ucm115809.htm

    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/CriminalInv...ns/default.htm

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...ci/contact.cfm (..keyword: "suspected"..) ..etc..

    ..ok, 3 more complaints:

    a) OK, re: "..It is a lamp and you are pointing a LED flashlight to an aircraft...", Umm, NO. It is a LASER PRODUCT, *claming* 3-5mW of output, each beamlet - which *can* reach an aircraft, ie: a heli, so - no - if you point this at an aircraft, you are NOT 'pointing a LED flashlight to an aircraft', you are pointing a LASER AT AN AIRCRAFT, which is now a FEDERAL OFFENSE. *THAT'S* what your 'advertising' needs to say, Richard!! "DO NOT EVER POINT THE 'FIREFLY' AT AN AIRCRAFT IN THE SKY", Richard!! On a big-yellow Label, right near the aperture, Richard!! ..but I guess that 'language' would-not snag 'pledges' (..for your mercedes.. ..Speaking of 'labeling'...

    b) re: "Compliant and registered with Federal Drug Administration (FDA) under the Center for Devices and Radiological Health (CDRH) for US Laser Notice No. 50 performance standards and reporting" ..Umm, Laser Notice 50 is not "the Regs", nor the laws setting safety-standards and limits. It's about 'amending' the CFR.. well, here:

    ..Effective immediately, and until the effective date(s) of any amendments of the Federal regulations affecting laser products, CDRH will not object to conformance with the comparable sections of IEC 60825-1, Editions 1.2 or 2 or 60601-2-22 in lieu of conformance with the following sections of 21 CFR 1040:
    [snip] - the only-one I can see being 'relevant' (..at least, what they are 'implying', since they blatantly don't *have* any..) is: 1040.10(g) Labeling requirements.. Which, as far as I understand, simply-means that they can - without 'prejudice' from 21 CFR 1040.10, 'call this' a "3R Laser Product", vs "Class IIIa" - see this PDF... http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Medical.../UCM095288.pdf

    ..but, I am not aware of *any* reg, IEC or otherwise, that says 'NO labeling necessary'! ..Especially, for something that - while the 'beamlets' might be IIIa-compliant... if yer 2 year old sticks this thing in his / her eyeball, whilst yer off making a bagel, etc, Umm.. Where's the 'Danger!' sticker for that?? ..I mean, yeah, it's 'not a lot of power', but.. even Blisslights and most 'ChiCo'-clones, have proper Warning, Classification and Danger labeling..

    ..Plus, if the FDA, itself says, in-regards to the 'Notices', :
    "FDA's guidance documents, including this guidance, do not establish legally enforceable responsibilities. Instead, guidances describe the Agency's current thinking on a topic and should be viewed only as recommendations..." etc - So, conversely, how is it that 'Parhelion' can claim 'FDA/CDRH "Certification", based-on Laser Notice 50?? It's not a 'OK to use this to back-up your wild-ass claims / go ahead and sell lots of boo-boo boxes, this is your rubber-stamp'-document!! Additionally, I think this device would more-fall under the 'category' of 'Demonstration product', which are *not* 'exempt' from the requirements of 1040.10, under LN 50...

    ...Ugh, not trying to be a Regs-nazi, but.. it just reaks of more of the same 'Wanton-lasers attitude', reconsituted - 'mega-bux, as fast as possible; any wisdom and/or bad-consequences, be-damned..' >_<

    c) re:
    "Rating of laser:

    The laser is below 4.98mw output as a result of the optics. We like to keep it well below that like 3mw. It is a class 3R laser at 450nm. CDRH/FDA specification at 70mm from aperture so essentially you have to place your face very close to the laser lamp. I have glasses and I am safe at distance 2 feet. You can get just as blinded by LED flashlights today (even more) and now they carry warnings. [..and, so where are *yours*??]

    It can be used by people in the vicinity with glasses. Safe for cats. [!!]
    This is a real true blue laser not the purple stuff they call blue that uses a backlight output that
    is confusing your vision.

    With any laser do not and even with 2M place close to your eye for example 70mm."


    ..who wrote this crap, his Cat??

    ..Here's another gem:

    "..the BLUE LASER that's the most compelling component for several reasons. First, technologically it is constructed using stable state technology unlike the green which uses a crystal diode. Crystal diode is fine for normal environments, but the stable state is shatter proof and with our patent-pending heat spreader the blue stable state laser can withstand up to 150 farenheit. Couple that with the special calibration we use for the blue that allows it to reveal objects in a smoky room.."

    ..Umm, yeeah... I think he's sipped a lil' bit too much Crown Royal out of that thing...

    ..bah....
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 04-10-2013 at 02:11.
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  9. #9
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    Yep, and the sad part is kickstarter haven't done crap about it yet. I dunno how the laws work there in the US, but could someone "in the know" possibly give our friend Richard here a little "referral"?

  10. #10
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    The sad thing is that since this thread began the guy has another $40k of backing. - People and stupidity never ceases to amaze! Judging by the comments you'd think this 'invention' is the second coming... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ology/comments

    Maybe if there are any Kickstarter members on here, they can post a link on there to our own thread, to help introduce some sanity into madness.

    James
    Laser Safety
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    https://www.facebook.com/LaserSafety

    - Laser Show Safety Training & Audience Scanning Workshops.
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