LSX or FB3 ?

[swamidog]

good point!

you can do that in lsx by using a "loop" expression in the z-rotational event and then setting your "duplicate count" to the number of clones you want.

when you make an abstact in lsx it gets dumped in into a frame bucket. this allows you to treat the live abstract as a frame and perform any of the traditional frame manipulations (size, position, rotation, pre/post moves, color and intensity modulations, cloning, etc).

you can also perform events specific to individual clones/duplicates. it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

it sounds like beyond is using different terminology, but the idea is similar.

I can't say I have much success with abstracts as its simply not my thing - I never make anything decent! But one thing that would interest you in beyond Swami is the fact that you can import abstracts into Synth files and then apply all the usual manipulations from there. I didn't know this myself until Bill pointed in out in response to a question I raised.

Specifically, I remember you posting a 6 coloured Abstract the other day and saying I wish I could do that. In Beyond its simple (at least once you've created a base abstract in the 1st place). You import the abstract into the synth file. Clone it 5 times to make 6 versions. Then apply positional and colour effects to each one to separate them out positionally and by colour, and then you have a 6 colour abstract. Obviously the initial abstract has to not be too cluttered if you're making 5 copies to keep both clarity and frame rates up, but it does show the power of synth. Every single effect available to synth can be applied to the abstract once imported. So it opens up some possibilities.

[Pangolin]

Hi Swami,

Thanks for the post. I also get the impression you will be at the next SELEM. It will be great to see you there and discuss things with you. Even setting software completely aside, I am sure we have a lot in common and will have much to talk about.

Regarding one thing you wrote, I have only one comment:

my frustration is it locks you into a pangolin ecosystem and i'm platform agnostic.

Seems to me that there is at least a bit of this with all systems. For example, to the extent that you use features that only exist in LSX and no others, you would not be able to use these in another platform. So if you use what they call "Expressions" (which we might call something else and be accessible in a different way), it means you can only use these (at least in the LSX way) on the LSX platform itself. So if you want to do "their things" in "their way", you need "their software".

If you do File/Save in LSX, I doubt it is possible to load many such files even in Phoenix which should be understood as "brother software" (built on the same foundation).

If, by "platform agnostic" you mean hardware wise, then I think I'd like to show you something in person. The smoothness of motion is unmatched in Pangolin software and this is because of how we communicate with the hardware and what the hardware does. To people who have never seen Pangolin software, or especially haven't seen it running side by side with others, this might seem, frankly, unbelievable. But it's true. Phoenix (brother software), Mamba, Moncha, Fiesta, etc. are nowhere near as smooth as Pangolin, and I'll be happy to put our software side by side with any others and show this to you.

We will be investigating running Pangolin software on Phoenix hardware and vice-versa to see what can be done. I'm always happy to do experiments, but if the output quality is not as good as we typically deliver, then we won't be "going there".

Bill

[VJ AIWAZ]

the thing is lsx will allow ilda export of a whole show with multiple scanners so you can take that to any other software that can import ilda so in that way you are not locked in to lsx you can freely trade frames that you have created

[Pangolin]

Our LD2000 software will allow the same thing -- including abstracts. Our software was the very first to allow this and in fact, Pangolin was the very first company in history to support the ILDA file format (we supported it even before Fred Fenning and Steve Heminover -- original authors of the format supported it).

[norty303]

So now that Beyond is looking like being the 'flagship' software, will that support the same export formats as LD2k?
What about users of your other hardware (i.e. not able to use LD2k)?

[swamidog]

your ld2000 software will, but quickshow and beyond does not. this is what i was referencing when i wrote about the closed pangolin ecosystem. sorry that i wasn't more clear.

Our LD2000 software will allow the same thing -- including abstracts. Our software was the very first to allow this and in fact, Pangolin was the very first company in history to support the ILDA file format (we supported it even before Fred Fenning and Steve Heminover -- original authors of the format supported it).

[colouredmirrorball]

Also if you want to expand your kit with another projector, you don't need to pay the price of the full package, only the price of a new DAC if you go with LSX. I know Pangolin claims the FB3 DAC costs $600, but of course the price of Quickshow is included in that.

Besides, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

[sugeek]

We will be investigating running Pangolin software on Phoenix hardware and vice-versa to see what can be done. I'm always happy to do experiments, but if the output quality is not as good as we typically deliver, then we won't be "going there".

Bill

That is very nice to hear Bill. As for this thread my answer is both, drive a Honda and/or a Focus both get you there.

Adam

[drlava]

I'm very glad that many users are sitting up and taking notice of the great value and power of LSX. There are great points made here about multi-projector output, value, and capability. Although it started off with Lennart's code base, tons of usability improvements have been added based on user feedback to make the user experience miles beyond LDS. Feature-wise, many users have told me they start with FB3/QS and like it for a little while because it's easy, but quickly hit a limitations wall and are faced with a very expensive upgrade to beyond. With LSX, you don't have to start off doing advanced swami-style things, but can start off with simpler QS style things easily, then learn and grow at your own pace, and the advanced features that you want will be waiting for you to discover them.

Besides this, with LSX a user always has the freedom to easily take their work and use it in any software package they wish. This is a freedom that is important to a lot of users, and shows the principles that guide LSX development in general.

The support of ILDA export is a very important feature, and I have to ask Bill, since you are proud of being the 'first' in the field of ILDA export in the old LD2000, now is the perfect time to commit to enabling it in your new software. You cannot make the argument that the software is 'too advanced' for ILDA export, because the very principle of discrete time digital to analog conversion in a DAC is the very basis of the definition of an ILDA file. In other words, if you wanted it to be done, it could be done.

We will be investigating running Pangolin software on Phoenix hardware and vice-versa to see what can be done.

the Phoenix DAC is an easylase DAC (JMLASER) that is locked down to their software. The only way you can investigate this is by somehow bypassing their hardware lock system, or by convincing them to give you the access keys.
EDIT: Oh, I see you own them now, so that won't be an issue

Speaking of DAC intercompatibility, how's the FB3 SDK coming along? Your users are waiting for it, and I look forward to trying it out, too!

Waiting
For It

[norty303]

From what I hear, there likely won't be an FB3 SDK so to speak, but there already is a Beyond SDK, which in turn handles the FB3 control.