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Thread: DAC & Software Choices..... getting harder the more I read!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galvonaut View Post
    I was planning on avoiding buying cheaper stuff, purely from past experience with anything technical - having it breakdown or not being up to the job. I have recently bought some cheap TTL RGB projectors and even straight out of the box I am experiencing problems (x axis on one jumps about an inch at 10m, DB25 pillars all lose, so come off on cable etc.)
    How do you find the easylase with Lasercam? I imagine with my current projectors, DAC quality won't make a huge difference, although they do need all the help they can get!
    The easylase works great, I've not had a great deal of time to really nail Lasercam and what I am trying to do with it but it seems all good! Feel free to borrow it for a weekend if ya like? I've not heard of any bad things about it failing....

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galvonaut View Post
    ...I am a fan of open source and the benefits it brings to the end user.
    When I asked for suggestions the other day about a DAC (asked on the basis that I may want a hardware frame buffer and other things I'm nto getting with a Layla24 like extreme portability), Swamidog suggested Etherdream as being maybe the most likely to work for people wanting fully open-sourced systems and plenty of power to do their own thing with them. Given what he can do with this stuff that's a convincing suggestion, and a picture of the device shows a well-built and small piece of kit.

    About the current debate on merits of Beyond, I know nothing about it but I will say that many people wrote off the DX7 because the original presets were largely horrible. BIG mistake to do that!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galvonaut View Post

    I'll do more research before I make any decisions and may go the cheap DAC route just to get me going with LSX and put more consideration into the live show side of things. I've never seen Moncha, Fiesta or Phoenix in use and would like to make a more informed choice.
    Rather than jumping in with yet more suggestions here, I think I'll just say that you may find that your best resource for DAC research will be the upcoming UKLEM.
    I'm sure that most options and opinions will be represented there... so come along and get some "hands on demo" experience!
    I'm sure we won't mind sharing our toys!
    If in doubt... Give it a clout?

  4. #24
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    Wow guys! I think I might take WookieBoy's advice and have a look at your toys at the UKLEM.
    I think the crazy LSX abstracts that I had seen online were in fact Swami's and it is clear that a lot of skill had gone into them. Mind blowing stuff, which is what I want to give my audiences.... eventually!

    Whitelight - you are right. I've watched a few tutorials for Beyond but that's about it. At this stage in the game, the more I see of what others are using and how they are using it, the better. I know very little and don't want to waste the small income I have to fund my laser-addiction on superfluous kit.

    Steviobee - that is a very kind offer, thank you. I would like to see what sort of setup and lighting is required for good results and whether the software is capable of ignoring out-of-focus subjects.

    Thanks everyone for your input. It has made me realise that I need to see the software in use and go with what I feel good with. UKLEM booked into diary - Italy trip can wait!

    Keith

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    Keith, LSX actually has multiple generators/engines of abstracts. One from LFI player, which is freeware you can download. From the programming work of the Amazing Mike Svob. Once you download LFI player, right click ( I think) on an existing abstract to open the abs gen.

    Then get Dean's SpiroDac freeware, works with Riya and other output devices.

    ---------------------------
    As for other quotes
    Funny, I was visiting with a friend last week in NJ and he described the LSX stock beam shows as basically 'kinda naff'. LoL. Small world, and it takes all kinds, we should agree to disagree, all.

    Steve

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    My LSX shows utilize very few expressions/user driven math.

    Probably 90% of what I do is straight from the GUI.

    I gave a little class on LSX at selem today and I think (hope) some lightbulbs went off. It's really not very complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post

    I have little doubt that when you get down to the math, you can do some more complex abstract effects in LSX,

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    Sounds good Swami. Your abstracts certainly impress!

    All I would say is that if you're not using maths, what is there in LSX on the abstract side that can't be done in Beyond? I'm not starting a pissing match here with LSX, I genuinely don't know as I don't do abstracts. I can see a very complex abstract generator in Beyond with banks of modulators etc and I know from Bill one secret is to create complex abstracts then import them into synths to manipulate them further but beyond that I know little of abstract creation. So I'm just wondering what the difference is feature wise or is it simply your skill?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor View Post

    About the current debate on merits of Beyond, I know nothing about it but I will say that many people wrote off the DX7 because the original presets were largely horrible. BIG mistake to do that!
    Yeah Pangolin's beam cues are some of the best in the world, I'm sure many would say they are the best in the world given that they form what is the defacto industry standard software - if the majority of the world's pros are using it, they must be doing something right on content, and you do get a lot for your money, around 2,000 cues in total I believe. As for graphical content, well that's personal taste. There is a certain style to the graphics that's for sure. Some say too cartoony, others like them. All I can say is that there are around 2,000 free cues with the programme and you can make shows out of the supplied graphical cues - I've just recently made a simple wedding show using nothing but standard cues and effects. OK, some have been altered slightly and the show probably won't be winning any ILDA prizes, but I'd show it at a wedding (if I did commercial shows) without any embarrassment at all. In fact I'm proud of it for what it is - a simple graphical show made by someone who doesn't have the artistic skill to draw anything independently. I intend to give it away free when finished (just waiting on some tweeks to Beyond to attain the look I want to finish it), so watch this space!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    Keith, LSX actually has multiple generators/engines of abstracts. One from LFI player, which is freeware you can download. From the programming work of the Amazing Mike Svob. Once you download LFI player, right click ( I think) on an existing abstract to open the abs gen.

    Then get Dean's SpiroDac freeware, works with Riya and other output devices.
    Steve
    Thanks Steve. Have downloaded

    Swamidog - It's good to know that you can create such great content with the GUI.

  9. #29
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    I'm not sure what his budget is, but costs may be a consideration.

    Lsx "lite" and a good Dac is about half the cost of an FB3/quickshow.

    LSX pro plus an Etherdream (the configuration i use) is very roughly the same price as an FB3.

    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    Sounds good Swami. Your abstracts certainly impress!

    All I would say is that if you're not using maths, what is there in LSX on the abstract side that can't be done in Beyond? I'm not starting a pissing match here with LSX, I genuinely don't know as I don't do abstracts. I can see a very complex abstract generator in Beyond with banks of modulators etc and I know from Bill one secret is to create complex abstracts then import them into synths to manipulate them further but beyond that I know little of abstract creation. So I'm just wondering what the difference is feature wise or is it simply your skill?



    Yeah Pangolin's beam cues are some of the best in the world, I'm sure many would say they are the best in the world given that they form what is the defacto industry standard software - if the majority of the world's pros are using it, they must be doing something right on content, and you do get a lot for your money, around 2,000 cues in total I believe. As for graphical content, well that's personal taste. There is a certain style to the graphics that's for sure. Some say too cartoony, others like them. All I can say is that there are around 2,000 free cues with the programme and you can make shows out of the supplied graphical cues - I've just recently made a simple wedding show using nothing but standard cues and effects. OK, some have been altered slightly and the show probably won't be winning any ILDA prizes, but I'd show it at a wedding (if I did commercial shows) without any embarrassment at all. In fact I'm proud of it for what it is - a simple graphical show made by someone who doesn't have the artistic skill to draw anything independently. I intend to give it away free when finished (just waiting on some tweeks to Beyond to attain the look I want to finish it), so watch this space!

  10. #30
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    Hi Keith,

    First let me say I love your nickname. Why didn't I think of that!?

    Regarding BEYOND, it currently has four separate abstract generators and we may also bring the Phoenix abstract generator into it as well, making that a fifth... As far as I have heard, at least many of the abstracts people have done using LSX only use the original LDS features (the code base upon which both LSX and also Phoenix is based), and as such, the Phoenix abstract generator should be able to make those -- not that the other four abstract generators in BEYOND couldn't themselves...

    Coloured mirror ball used terms like "insanely expensive" and "ridiculous cost". I think these words are really inappropriate, and I'm glad that our current 25,000 clients also disagree with his assessment ;-)

    In any event, people here on PL know that I'm a generous guy, and that we believe that if you satisfy clients, the money will come as a result. It is our philosophy to start with the client first. I will also point out that an awful lot of people here on Photon Lexicon have received a copy of BEYOND absolutely free -- not for some "insane" or "ridiculous" cost.

    If you already have a QuickShow package, please contact me directly by email, and we'll chat about this. If you're the kind of guy who likes to push the envelope, we'd love to have you playing with BEYOND, providing good feedback, and sharing your success story on our Facebook page and elsewhere. We often promote the great work our clients do on our Powered By Pangolin section of our web site, and these stories also get picked up in national and international publications.

    And yes, BEYOND can control parameters based on mouse motion, external controllers, or even the live audio. We showed some of this at the recent SELEM meeting on North Carolina a few days ago.

    By the way, I'm sorry that the choice of software packages isn't more clear. I believe that is a failure on our part, and that we're not doing a good job of communicating about the differences. We do have some tutorial videos and the like planned for the coming months, to help people understand what's so special about our software. Already there are things in BEYOND and even QuickShow that are not found in literally any other product, partially due to patents on things like Beam Attenuation Maps and pending patents on elements of our user interface. QuickShow and LD2000 are the only software packages I know of to receive an ILDA Award for technical excellence. And by the end of the year, I believe it will be very clear that there are technologies that can be only gotten from Pangolin.

    Best regards,

    William Benner

    PS: As I watch the projected images from other software packages, it is very frustrating for me. On all other software packages, if you pay VERY close attention to how things move, you will see jerkiness. This was very clear when laser shows were being played during SELEM. But if you watch things on the Pangolin platform, things are smooth as butter. I'm amazed there isn't more of a discussion about this. I hope I'm not the only one who notices.
    Last edited by Pangolin; 08-19-2013 at 15:28.

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